24" depth, who runs t5, who runs MH?

[Myka]

First of all, as this debate goes on, as they always do when someone asks about T5 vs MH the T5 people always jump on their high horse and say there are a million T5 dominated SPS tanks out there that are AMAZING. Well no shhhht. There are a million AMAZING skimmerless SPS tanks out there too. Just as there are a million AMAZING low-tech SPS tanks. There are many ways to light a tank, BUT there are ways that improve your chances and abilities to have an amazing SPS tank, just as there are ways to decrease maintenance.

Originally Posted by gobytron

Thanks for the diatribe, I appreciate your comments.

I'm amazed so much info can be received from someone who has a 33 gallon sumpless and skimmerless tank.


I would love to see your set up Myka, do you have any pics?

I don't know if I should be offended or not?? Haha! No, I don't get offended very easily. You are assuming that the tank I have now is the biggest and bestest tank I ever did have, which isn't true. Well in some ways it is, but my biggest and bestest tanks I had back in the early and mid 90s, and I have very few pics.

I'm glad you found the pics of my 33 to your liking. You may be interested to know that tank was lit by 2x39w T5s for 2 1/2 years, and I have just recently (in last month) added a short burst of 2x250w DE MH to the tank. LPS aren't SPS though. I don't have any critters in there that require intense lighting. The clam is a Squamosa which is the least light demanding clam out there (that is easily found in the hobby), and the anemone is a Bubble Tip which is one of the least light demanding anemones out there. Both the Squamosa and the Bubble Tip are known to do well even under VHOs and CFs with enough wattage.

I have so many pieces of equipment that it's confusing and I was wondering if it were all necessary plus, I am looking to spend 400-500 on an new skimmer that I was under the impression was mandatory. I'd be sincerely interested to know about your maintenance schedule and if you have any problems with algae or organic waste build up etc...

I have troubles with Valonia, but it came with the live rock, and persisted even when I was using a skimmer on this tank. I removed the skimmer about 8 months ago I think, and the tank has never been better. I take my time to make sure the powerheads keep detritus from settling, and I do run an AquaClear with some fitler media in it to catch the detritus which I change 2x a week. I also have a powerhead in there that I turn on everyday for only a couple minutes as it creates too much flow for the LPS, but cleans out the detritus from behind the rocks. I run about 1 1/2 cups of BRS HC GFO in a PhosBan reactor which I change out every 4-6 weeks. Skimmers aren't mandatory, but I would say that they are STRONGLY urged in a SPS tank which usually does best in a lower nutrient environment.

I wonder what difference the usable light makes if my tank is only 18" wide?
wouldn't a 6 bulb fixture give me all the usable light I need where as a MH light might be spilling over the sides as i have read a MH bulb should cover about 2 square feet and thats about 6" too big?

Not really...if you have a canopy over the tank, and the light is properly reflected down so you don't get much light spill then you aren't wasting the MH light, you're actually increasing it a little bit because you're taking the same amount of light and concentrating it a bit.

I would love to see a comparison of the best and most advanced MH technology against the best and most advanced T5, regardless of differences in reflectors, ballasts and such, just a bare knuckles brawl between these two top offerings of these mainstays in this hobby.

You can't disregard the reflectors, ballasts and bulbs though. That makes the comparison a moot point. If you chose the highest PAR T5 setup to the highest PAR MH setup, then you could have a decent comparison.

Also, some links to those case studies you mentioned that set the record straight on t5 vs MH depth penetration would be really helpful, can you post the links to them please?

Sorry, I haven't saved any links. I've just read some here and there surfing the net.

[Ryan]

Steve checkout LED Supply. Even with shipping, exchane and duties the Cee LED's would be 20 peice. Maybe closer to 14.

[Canadian]

Steve,

I should get you out to measure the PAR of my 6 x 24W fixture. I'm sure the PAR isn't spectacular given that we know 80W T5s are the most powerful and efficient. If nothing else I should buy my own Quantum meter so I can post some values.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Canadian

Steve,

I should get you out to measure the PAR of my 6 x 24W fixture. I'm sure the PAR isn't spectacular given that we know 80W T5s are the most powerful and efficient. If nothing else I should buy my own Quantum meter so I can post some values.

no problem, my schedual is a little hetic with me being Mr. Mom now, but I am off work at 3 every day and depending where you live I don't have to pick up kids till 4:45 in langford.

Shoot me a PM and we can figure something out, I even know where my Meter is as I didn't pack it

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Steve checkout LED Supply. Even with shipping, exchane and duties the Cee LED's would be 20 peice. Maybe closer to 14.

hmm there actualy 39 each from that site.

you can get the dimmer ones for cheeper, about 12ish so you can take about 500 off my cost estimate of 2300. still to darn rich for my blood. you could use the 9 buck ones which would take 650.00 off but then your only going to get less than T5 lighting levels

[Ron99]

Hi Steve,

I have read alot about LEDs on nanoreef. I may get in on the current group buy which will get the prices down as low as possible. You should check out what Evill66 posts. He has tons of experience with LEDs and PAR levels and knows his stuff. LEDs are able to compete with MH and will bleach corals if you aren't careful. I think some of the older comparisons were made with products like the Solaris fixtures that used older Luxeon III LEDs etc. The newer Cree LEDs put out alot of light and alot more PAR.

Which LEDs are you looking at? If it's the MC-Es then yeah, they are a bit expensive and probably overkill. If you put tight optics on an MC-E you will probably bleach any corals directly under it unless they are deeper in your tank. Also, I don't think there are any royal blue MC-Es yet. XR-Es put out alot of light and PAR and can be had for USD $6.00 each on stars. In the group buy they will probably end up around $5.75 a piece and then optics are $1 each. Luxeon Rebels are really good too but optics are more limited. I am considering a 68 to 72 Cree XR-E LED array with 60 degree optics which should give me more than 150W MH performance. That is more than adequate for what I want to keep as I want to do a progression of higher to lower light corals from the top down. But nothing really demanding or requiring really high light.

I'm not really sure what LEDs you're looking at and what prices you are getting but those prices seem awfully high compared to what I have found at LED Supply, Cutter, ETG Tech etc. LEDs , optics and drivers/power supplies for my array would work out to about USD $650 to $700.

Assuming your tank is something like 30 by 12 inches you could probably get away with a 45 LED array (15 x 3) with 40 degree optics and you would have at least 250W MH performance. Cost of parts would be around USD $270 for LEDs, USD $45 for optics. The Meanwell drivers are a great option as they incorporate the power supply and driver in one and run off 110V. You could drive up to 13 LEDs on each one so you would need 4 of them. If you buy them yourself they would probably run around $50 to $60 each but in volume with the group buy at nanoreef they will likely come in at around USD $33 each. They are also dimmable with a few extra inexpensive components so you could run blues and whites off separate drivers and adjust your colour temperature and brightness.

Also, if the LEDs are already mounted on stars there is no need for plate soldering or anything like that. Simply mount them to the heatsink and wire the proper pads on the stars. As for heat, yes, you are right. they generate alot of heat upwards, not down into the tank. I picked up a large industrial heat sink at a salvage yard for $40 which will be more than adequate. If I bought the heatsink commercially I would probably be looking at $100 or so for that.

So the prices for DIY are not cheap but when you look at long term savings in electricity and bulbs it works out to be cheaper after a couple of years use.

Cheers,

Ron

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Ron99

I picked up a large industrial heat sink at a salvage yard for $40 which will be more than adequate. If I bought the heatsink commercially I would probably be looking at $100 or so for that.

Cheers,

Ron

I was looking at the MC-e stars for the white, then getting XR-E's for the blue and a few UV to throw in there. was going to use 60 to 80 degree optics on the MC-e's and 40 on the royal blues.

what was the heat sink you got from? I was thinjing of just getting a slab of aluminum and making my own but that is darn expensive.

Steve

[Doug]

"sigh". Nevermind

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Doug

I have used both, and enough times on different tanks, to think I can post with some experience.

but Doug, you're really old now, and well, we gotta question your senility these days...

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

but Doug, you're really old now, and well, we gotta question your senility these days...