The RED List of Fish, Inverts, and Corals

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by naesco

Tell us, Marie is the powder brown tang nigricans still alive?

Oh, c'mon, we aren't doing this again? I kept mine for years until my stupidity killed it. It did great in my 75. An example of rules not always applying. sure, they are difficult, but not impossible. so are the red, or yellow, or green with a yellow tick, containing a reddish hue?

Don't pick on Marie because she had good luck with a fish.

Unless a fish, say the ornate butterfly, is undeniably impossible without huge amounts of keeper intervention, a list will always be a guideline, that some will choose to follow, and others will not.
And the LFS will always try to sell whatever comes in the box, we all know they gets lots of substitutions, so what's a person to do? This is a huge complex issue that a list is not going to fix. There's lists all over the place for so many things, heck, we could make a list of them.
This is a good hypothetical conversation, people need to not take it too seriously.

[naesco]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Oh, c'mon, we aren't doing this again? I kept mine for years until my stupidity killed it. It did great in my 75. An example of rules not always applying. sure, they are difficult, but not impossible. so are the red, or yellow, or green with a yellow tick, containing a reddish hue?

Don't pick on Marie because she had good luck with a fish.

Unless a fish, say the ornate butterfly, is undeniably impossible without huge amounts of keeper intervention, a list will always be a guideline, that some will choose to follow, and others will not.
And the LFS will always try to sell whatever comes in the box, we all know they gets lots of substitutions, so what's a person to do? This is a huge complex issue that a list is not going to fix. There's lists all over the place for so many things, heck, we could make a list of them.
This is a good hypothetical conversation, people need to not take it too seriously.

Hey, I will be delighted to see a red and yellow list with some species on it rather than no list at all.
I agree that everyone will not agree on every species and which category they should fall in.

Here is how I understand how LFS purchase livestock and coral.
1. Exporters provide a list to wholesalers of what they have available.
2. Wholesalers provide that list to LFS who indicate the species and size of what they wish to order.
3. Wholesalers provide the LFS list to the exporters who ship the order.
I understand substitutions are now rare as LFS do not appreciate it, especially when they get stuck with Moorish Idol or cleaner wrasses which many of reputable refuse to carry anymore unless they are ordered in by the customer.
BTW can you post a picture of your powder brown tang if you still have it.
Thanks
Wayne

[my2rotties]

Marie mentioned some where in this thread that she sold it. I am not sure if she would know if it is alive or not now. I can say I have never been to an LFS and not seen cleaner wrasses available. At least in my neck of the woods. I have always had good luck with mine.

Originally Posted by naesco

Hey, I will be delighted to see a red and yellow list with some species on it rather than no list at all.
I agree that everyone will not agree on every species and which category they should fall in.

Here is how I understand how LFS purchase livestock and coral.
1. Exporters provide a list to wholesalers of what they have available.
2. Wholesalers provide that list to LFS who indicate the species and size of what they wish to order.
3. Wholesalers provide the LFS list to the exporters who ship the order.
I understand substitutions are now rare as LFS do not appreciate it, especially when they get stuck with Moorish Idol or cleaner wrasses which many of reputable refuse to carry anymore unless they are ordered in by the customer.
BTW can you post a picture of your powder brown tang if you still have it.
Thanks
Wayne

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by naesco

BTW can you post a picture of your powder brown tang if you still have it.
Thanks
Wayne

Wayne, you're not reading. I said I killed it, but we did argue about it, and I posted pics of it for many years way back in the old days. We've been all around this one before.

[naesco]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Wayne, you're not reading. I said I killed it, but we did argue about it, and I posted pics of it for many years way back in the old days. We've been all around this one before.

The only reason for asking for the photo was simply to determine which of the two 'powder brown' species we are talking about.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by naesco

The only reason for asking for the photo was simply to determine which of the two 'powder brown' species we are talking about.

You confirmed it last time I posted, it was a nigricans. I agree that one should not take one of these fish if the japonicus is available, but let's face it, we've been discussing this for 10 years and they're still coming to the LFS. They always will, as long as fish are sold as pets.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by naesco

Instead of posting this drivel, you, Marie and others should be coming to the defense of Myka and the efforts of others to develop a red and yellow list and applauding Myka for the efforts Myka has made to assist reefers.
There will be a red and yellow list on this board for the benefit of all reefs

Tell us, Marie is the powder brown tang nigricans still alive?

As I see it, it is this kind of statement that makes this whole list idea unfeasible. Some people are too quick to chastise somebody, and use too sharp a tongue when doing so. There may be underlying circumstances as to why a person may have purchased a certain animal:

eg. Marie stated that the fish was sent to her in error. She didn't order that fish. (Besides which, Marie is an experienced hobbyist and has several difficult species thriving in her tank.)

eg. I bought a Mandarin Dragonet when my tank was only 6 months old. Did I think my tank was ready for it? No. I didn't particularly even want the fish. I purchased the fish from an LFS because it had been sitting in a tank for 2 weeks without any live rock and was wasting away. I brought the fish home and over the next 6 months I purchased 7 bottles of Tigger pods to keep a decent pod population going. I have had him now for over a year and he is healthy and fit, without as far as I know ever eating any prepared foods. Yet, I've received hell on more than one occasion for owning a Mandarin.

eg. I bought a 3" Sailfin Tang for my 90 gal tank. Sure enough, I caught hell for it: "It'll grow too large for your 90 and you won't get a bigger tank for it". He's now about 6" and I have a 225 gal home for him.

The point I'm trying to make is that things are not always black and white, and jumping all over someone for an animal they may keep is why, IMO, although it may be a nice idea in theory, this "LIST" idea is not going to work.

[karazy]

Guys, girls,


YOU ARE ALL BEING VERY IMMATURE.

Yes you want to voice your opinion, and yes you probably think the other guys/girls opinion is wrong, but come on already.
You people are taking shots on each other, some of which don't even pertain to the topic,
and just voicing your opinion in a very immature way that no one really needs to read about on a public forum for all ages.


This thread was obviously made to help out people who are new to reef keeping, or even people who aren't new to the hobby, find out if fish that they want would be a suitable and responsible choice.
Not a 10 page long fight over your opinions.

I will be making no reply's if someone calls me out on this because i didn't reply to this thread for more fighting.

Mods, can you please get rid of this thread so canreef can be a more positive place?

And reefers, I personally think its kind of sad when a 13 year old has to tell you whats wrong.

[Samw]

Originally Posted by karazy

Guys, girls,


YOU ARE ALL BEING VERY IMMATURE.



And reefers, I personally think its kind of sad when a 13 year old has to tell you whats wrong.

Bravo.

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by Jason McK

Chin Lee spends a great deal of time and energy maintaining the 'Fish Life Span' Polls
Christy Spent months creating a fish reference library
and none of it gets utilized to there potential. You say
But we have already spent exhaustive amounts of time gathering educational reference material so all canreef members can make informed purchases.

In my opinion (not the Mods of Canreef) a red list is rediculous. There will always be success stores and sad failure stories with advanced fish, corals, or inverts. So to say No you shouldn't keep X in an aquarium will never get collective agreement

I like the idea of a coloured list, for a sort of lazy person such as myself, it would be a quick and easy reference guide. No hunting through pages of information before finding out that the fish I might want isn't a good choice.

Originally Posted by karazy

Guys, girls,


YOU ARE ALL BEING VERY IMMATURE.

Yes you want to voice your opinion, and yes you probably think the other guys/girls opinion is wrong, but come on already.
You people are taking shots on each other, some of which don't even pertain to the topic,
and just voicing your opinion in a very immature way that no one really needs to read about on a public forum for all ages.


This thread was obviously made to help out people who are new to reef keeping, or even people who aren't new to the hobby, find out if fish that they want would be a suitable and responsible choice.
Not a 10 page long fight over your opinions.

I will be making no reply's if someone calls me out on this because i didn't reply to this thread for more fighting.

Mods, can you please get rid of this thread so canreef can be a more positive place?

And reefers, I personally think its kind of sad when a 13 year old has to tell you whats wrong.

Well said, but there is a lot of good info in this thread that I would hate to see lost.