The RED List of Fish, Inverts, and Corals

[my2rotties]

Marie mentioned some where in this thread that she sold it. I am not sure if she would know if it is alive or not now. I can say I have never been to an LFS and not seen cleaner wrasses available. At least in my neck of the woods. I have always had good luck with mine.

Originally Posted by naesco

Hey, I will be delighted to see a red and yellow list with some species on it rather than no list at all.
I agree that everyone will not agree on every species and which category they should fall in.

Here is how I understand how LFS purchase livestock and coral.
1. Exporters provide a list to wholesalers of what they have available.
2. Wholesalers provide that list to LFS who indicate the species and size of what they wish to order.
3. Wholesalers provide the LFS list to the exporters who ship the order.
I understand substitutions are now rare as LFS do not appreciate it, especially when they get stuck with Moorish Idol or cleaner wrasses which many of reputable refuse to carry anymore unless they are ordered in by the customer.
BTW can you post a picture of your powder brown tang if you still have it.
Thanks
Wayne

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by naesco

BTW can you post a picture of your powder brown tang if you still have it.
Thanks
Wayne

Wayne, you're not reading. I said I killed it, but we did argue about it, and I posted pics of it for many years way back in the old days. We've been all around this one before.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by naesco

Instead of posting this drivel, you, Marie and others should be coming to the defense of Myka and the efforts of others to develop a red and yellow list and applauding Myka for the efforts Myka has made to assist reefers.
There will be a red and yellow list on this board for the benefit of all reefs

Tell us, Marie is the powder brown tang nigricans still alive?

As I see it, it is this kind of statement that makes this whole list idea unfeasible. Some people are too quick to chastise somebody, and use too sharp a tongue when doing so. There may be underlying circumstances as to why a person may have purchased a certain animal:

eg. Marie stated that the fish was sent to her in error. She didn't order that fish. (Besides which, Marie is an experienced hobbyist and has several difficult species thriving in her tank.)

eg. I bought a Mandarin Dragonet when my tank was only 6 months old. Did I think my tank was ready for it? No. I didn't particularly even want the fish. I purchased the fish from an LFS because it had been sitting in a tank for 2 weeks without any live rock and was wasting away. I brought the fish home and over the next 6 months I purchased 7 bottles of Tigger pods to keep a decent pod population going. I have had him now for over a year and he is healthy and fit, without as far as I know ever eating any prepared foods. Yet, I've received hell on more than one occasion for owning a Mandarin.

eg. I bought a 3" Sailfin Tang for my 90 gal tank. Sure enough, I caught hell for it: "It'll grow too large for your 90 and you won't get a bigger tank for it". He's now about 6" and I have a 225 gal home for him.

The point I'm trying to make is that things are not always black and white, and jumping all over someone for an animal they may keep is why, IMO, although it may be a nice idea in theory, this "LIST" idea is not going to work.

[karazy]

Guys, girls,


YOU ARE ALL BEING VERY IMMATURE.

Yes you want to voice your opinion, and yes you probably think the other guys/girls opinion is wrong, but come on already.
You people are taking shots on each other, some of which don't even pertain to the topic,
and just voicing your opinion in a very immature way that no one really needs to read about on a public forum for all ages.


This thread was obviously made to help out people who are new to reef keeping, or even people who aren't new to the hobby, find out if fish that they want would be a suitable and responsible choice.
Not a 10 page long fight over your opinions.

I will be making no reply's if someone calls me out on this because i didn't reply to this thread for more fighting.

Mods, can you please get rid of this thread so canreef can be a more positive place?

And reefers, I personally think its kind of sad when a 13 year old has to tell you whats wrong.

[Samw]

Originally Posted by karazy

Guys, girls,


YOU ARE ALL BEING VERY IMMATURE.



And reefers, I personally think its kind of sad when a 13 year old has to tell you whats wrong.

Bravo.

[marie]

As far as I'm concerned the fish polls are great and I check it a lot. If only they could be reset on a yearly basis it would be even better

[my2rotties]

Evan as usual you outshine most of us older folks... please always stay positive, as a young gentleman like you speaking out does mean something. Next time I'm in the store I'll have to bring you something.

Originally Posted by karazy

Guys, girls,


YOU ARE ALL BEING VERY IMMATURE.

Yes you want to voice your opinion, and yes you probably think the other guys/girls opinion is wrong, but come on already.
You people are taking shots on each other, some of which don't even pertain to the topic,
and just voicing your opinion in a very immature way that no one really needs to read about on a public forum for all ages.


This thread was obviously made to help out people who are new to reef keeping, or even people who aren't new to the hobby, find out if fish that they want would be a suitable and responsible choice.
Not a 10 page long fight over your opinions.

I will be making no reply's if someone calls me out on this because i didn't reply to this thread for more fighting.

Mods, can you please get rid of this thread so canreef can be a more positive place?

And reefers, I personally think its kind of sad when a 13 year old has to tell you whats wrong.

[Madreefer]

Originally Posted by naesco

What a bunch of BS from someone who has 6 posts. Who are you?

It's not about how many posts a person has. Who cares who this person is. It's obviously someone who has been around for a while and has setup a new membership just to do some venting and knock someone down a peg or two. It's great that Myka trys to help people but you have to practise what you preach. Myka has created a "guide to this and that" Thats cool and all but to put your name in front of it and call it yours, comes across that you think of yourself as a bit of a guru. Even though she might be very knowledgeable. Rather than putting up a red/green/yellow list it's best to put up a fish library with all the info about that certain species. It's alot of work but could help out alot in the end. This is pretty entertaining but lets not get toooo personal, would'nt want to push someone in to having to use meds.

[brizzo]

Originally Posted by 3MTA3

Opinions are like rearends...everyone has one. Please add me to your red list as I am sure to be extinct soon or at least gone from this forum as free speech seems to actually come with a cost nowadays.

*signed*
B.S.
Cheers

For once I agree with naesco. It's nice that you have an opinion 3MTA3, and I'm very sure some members will agree with you, and some will not. But I'm going to guess you're a member under another name here to be so familiar with post/thread history, so why hide behind a new forum name?

[Myka]

First of all, oh yes I am probably one of the most hypocritical bastards in the world! I will say that for sure. I don't follow a lot of the rules when it comes to my own tank, but I definitely wouldn't recommend that to anyone else!

You miss the point of most of my postings. My aim is to help newbies out. That is my biggest payoff on these boards. Keep in mind that most of the threads I post in are threads started by people who are new to reef keeping. There are a lot of "rules" or general guidelines if you will that will really help a newbie out to follow them. Once someone gains more experience they can branch out and try new or more challenging things without as much risk. Newbies are often put off of reef keeping because they bite off a bigger chunk than they can chew. If there are more experienced reefers around that can help to keep those newbies keep things under control then there are greater chances that there will be another great reefer in the world.

Originally Posted by 3MTA3

After reading through this forum for some time now one person has stood out above the rest and if no one else will say then I will.

Myka,
It is nice you feel you are being the savior to those who cannot be for themselves. But albeit a little hypocritical.
I read one of your threads awhile back where you stated you have a Tang in your 33G tank that you were having an algae problem with? I just read a post today where you told someone their 65G was to small for a tang? How do you justify this?

I sure do. My Kole Tang is rather a cute lil thang. His body is about the same size as my Bangaii Cardinals' bodies. Point being, his current size is not too large for the tank, but I have no plans to get a 100+ gallon tank to house him, so he will have a new home - soon too as he has not done the job I hoped he would. I bought him with this in mind, and I took over a year to find a specimen small enough for my tank at which point I paid a grossly large amount for him.

No I didn't tell someone their 65 was to small for a tang (at least not the last little while), I told someone their 90 was too small for a Sailfin Tang. Don't you agree?

Originally Posted by 3MTA3

In another thread you ask a store to justify themselves....also making statement that 99% of reefers or salt water enthusiasts are not capable of housing these animals.

where do you get this 99% figure from?

My ass. I could have said 63%, would that have worked better for you? Seriously though, I have done enough work in retail stores when I was younger, and also just simply by looking on forums like these or RC, and it's not difficult to see that 95/97/99% (a large percentage anyway) are not capable of housing a Flying Gurnard or a Banded Bamboo shark. Do you disagree?

Originally Posted by 3MTA3

Then you go off making this posted thread about "red" list and "yellow" list...and THEN post a "I wanna group buy from J&L" and lo and behold when you go to their "new and noteworthy*tm*(just in case they trademarked it lol) there are at least TWO items on your RED LIST.... Have they justified these imports to you? Have you asked them to justify it?
So I have to ask....what makes it okay for one and not another?

Oh I know!!! J&L's New & Noteworthy page this week is AWFUL!! There are at least 4 critters on there that should be left in the ocean (or kept by experienced reef keepers only for the sake of argument). I have seen red/yellow listed animals in every store that I have bought livestock from at some point or another. I didn't mention anything about it on these forums because J&L doesn't respond as they don't check these forums very often. Does this mean I shouldn't try to make a difference?

Oh, and if you're that interested I wanted to order a photosynthetic gorgonian, and a brain coral.

Originally Posted by 3MTA3

Also your reference to "cyanide caught" in most items on your list...Where do you get this reference? Have you personally seen these injustices? or is this just coming from what you read or hear or the voices? What qualifies you as the leading expert to make these statements as cut and dry facts/truths?

Well I have been keeping reefs since somewhere around 1990 ish, so I'm glad someone's finally recognized me as a leading expert! I'm flattered!



Seriously though, it doesn't take an expert to do a little research to find plenty of literature on cyanide caught fish, and which species are more likely to be caught that way. Have you personally seen these fish caught with cyanide? No? Does that mean it doesn't happen?

Originally Posted by 3MTA3

*signed*
B.S.
Cheers

You're a bit of an extremist aren't you? You're like the kettle calling the pot black. The red/yellow list for example, as I've already said is not a be all end all. The point of it is to help newbies, and if newbies are told "NO!" instead of "Well, maybe if you do this this this..." then that's not necessary a bad thing in many cases.






Hey Brad, would you change my "Member" to "Rogue Reef Bully" please? I think it would be more suiting.