The RED List of Fish, Inverts, and Corals

[my2rotties]

I noticed some of the species had more detailed reasoning as to why they should not be kept or be kept by experienced reefers. However some are not. I know when I have done my research on fish, I will find info saying generalized reasoning behind not keeping these certain species of fish. Perhaps if others with experience could expand on reasons why from personal experience it might help others. If a species is susceptible to disease, what kind of disease? If a fish typically won't eat perhaps say what was tried for feeding. If a species of fish does not get along with many other fish, perhaps say what fish it was housed with.

Some of us have screwed up along the way, and we all know I have... however if there is info for people that have already impulse bought a fish or was misinformed, and now has a situation, they can maybe help themselves more easily.

[RobynR]

Here is a great reference site for the list. My husband and I check it out every time we find a fish we are considering. http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/badfishlist.shtml

[naesco]

Originally Posted by RobynR

Here is a great reference site for the list. My husband and I check it out every time we find a fish we are considering. http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/badfishlist.shtml

Thanks
When a industry vendor posts this, I think they are trying to tell us something, eh!

TANGS
There is an error on the list and it is a common error.
There are two similar 'powder brown' tangs. japonica and nigricans.
Japonica (the one with the orange on it) is a good tang to have if you meet tank size requirements.
Nicricans is impossible to keep.

[marie]

Originally Posted by naesco

....
Nicricans is impossible to keep.

If you want to be taken seriously then you need to watch how you word things.
Nigricans is not impossible to keep, I received one in a mix up at JL. The fish lived fine in my 75g tank until I sold it. People who don't know what they are doing may know of someone who has one and when they read the above they may think your full of it.

So instead... A nigricans may be too much of a challenge for most newbies and is better off left in the ocean...A. japonica is a much nicer looking fish anyway and easier to keep

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by marie

If you want to be taken seriously then you need to watch how you word things.
Nigricans is not impossible to keep, I received one in a mix up at JL. The fish lived fine in my 75g tank until I sold it. People who don't know what they are doing may know of someone who has one and when they read the above they may think your full of it.

So instead... A nigricans may be too much of a challenge for most newbies and is better off left in the ocean...A. japonica is a much nicer looking fish anyway and easier to keep

You could say something similar about every fish on that list. Just because you managed to do it doesn't mean that 90% of the imports die quickly etc. Hence the fundamental issue with lists like this, somebody always has a counter example.

It's not that I don't agree with the idea but the info is easy to find as it is so why duplicate it here? I don't think somebody is any more likely to notice it here and stop a ill informed purchase than they are to scan the first page of a google result.

[marie]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

You could say something similar about every fish on that list. Just because you managed to do it doesn't mean that 90% of the imports die quickly etc. Hence the fundamental issue with lists like this, somebody always has a counter example.

It's not that I don't agree with the idea but the info is easy to find as it is so why duplicate it here? I don't think somebody is any more likely to notice it here and stop a ill informed purchase than they are to scan the first page of a google result.

And that is why I thought he should maybe quite using the word "impossible" ...It's not impossible just hard.

Sometimes the more often things get said the more likely it will sink in

[naesco]

Originally Posted by marie

If you want to be taken seriously then you need to watch how you word things.
Nigricans is not impossible to keep, I received one in a mix up at JL. The fish lived fine in my 75g tank until I sold it. People who don't know what they are doing may know of someone who has one and when they read the above they may think your full of it.

So instead... A nigricans may be too much of a challenge for most newbies and is better off left in the ocean...A. japonica is a much nicer looking fish anyway and easier to keep

In a 75? Well Marie, the definition used in the aquarium pro site is >Fish that may be kept successfully, but ONLY in public aquaria that can supply their specialized needs.
I would say that it was pretty impossible to keep our tanks wouldn't you say?
BTW is the nigricans you sold still alive because typically they do well for a while for a while then seem to peter out and die. Apparently something is missing in the diet we provide in our aquariums.

I would recommend this fish on the red list. Do you agree?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by RobynR

Here is a great reference site for the list. My husband and I check it out every time we find a fish we are considering. http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/badfishlist.shtml

This list is exactly what I meant when I said things like this need to be well organized and specific. Great list.

[Myka]

I agree with pretty much all the fish suggested, and the changes suggested as well (as good reasons were provided). That's great! I was worried this thread could turn into a poo throwing match...which it still has the potential.

Originally Posted by RobynR

Here is a great reference site for the list. My husband and I check it out every time we find a fish we are considering. http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/badfishlist.shtml

This is pretty much what I was kind of setting out to do. This thread could just as well point to that URL. Although it is always nice to have "our own" CanReef thread.

I received a PM that suggested a few of us more experienced reef keepers get together and decide on a list which I think is a great idea, but this could really become a very large project. I could always start with a base like that link RobynR posted, and we can edit it how we would like to. I'm willing to put some time into this if needed.

Originally Posted by my2rotties

I noticed some of the species had more detailed reasoning as to why they should not be kept or be kept by experienced reefers. However some are not. I know when I have done my research on fish, I will find info saying generalized reasoning behind not keeping these certain species of fish. Perhaps if others with experience could expand on reasons why from personal experience it might help others. If a species is susceptible to disease, what kind of disease? If a fish typically won't eat perhaps say what was tried for feeding. If a species of fish does not get along with many other fish, perhaps say what fish it was housed with.

This would be great, but wow it really could turn into a book!!

What would you guys like to do? Suggestions?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Myka

I agree with pretty much all the fish suggested, and the changes suggested as well (as good reasons were provided). That's great! I was worried this thread could turn into a poo throwing match...which it still has the potential.



This is pretty much what I was kind of setting out to do. This thread could just as well point to that URL. Although it is always nice to have "our own" CanReef thread.

I received a PM that suggested a few of us more experienced reef keepers get together and decide on a list which I think is a great idea, but this could really become a very large project. I could always start with a base like that link RobynR posted, and we can edit it how we would like to. I'm willing to put some time into this if needed.



This would be great, but wow it really could turn into a book!!

What would you guys like to do? Suggestions?

I think that list (from the link) is a great start but can also be elaborated on. Its still kind of vague. Many new people to the hobby want more specific reasons for why they are being told not to keep a fish. Just saying diet isn't going to stop a lot of people--its still easy to justify by saying..."well its eating in store and I will feed him well and do my best".

Thats where this thread can come in. Hearing personal and real life stories, good AND bad are what can help people learn.

IMO, if we can't change the stores ordering/sales and can't stop people from buying fish they should not be buying, at least we can advise people how to at least give the difficult fish a fighting chance. AND encourage them to only try once if they really must buy from the red list fish.

I think there are enough "experts" here to put a good list together and really get down to details. Some people are quite experienced with tangs and I know I could learn a lot from them...others like me have kept a ridiculous number of puffers over the past 12 years (6 years saltwater, the rest brackish) but could still learn from others experiences.

What about a nice list/thread with all species commonly available. Will take time but maybe if we encourage "easy" species as well as discourage "difficult" species, we can get somewhere. Offering an alternative to a fish that you are telling someone "no" to may be nice. For example, don't try the Moorish Idol for these reasons... BUT maybe you would like to try a Heniochus which look similar but are easier to care for (granted there is a very tough to care for and ID Heniochus species too...maybe a bad example but you get the point).

Just a thought. Would be a lot of work but with enough time, it would probably come together nicely.

Oh and pictures