Dipping fish and corals

[Myka]

Originally Posted by es355lucille

Myka, sorry I missed what medication(s) you use if "icky things" lol are found on corals? Thanks Brad

Depends what the icky things are. Flatworms? Flatworm Exit. Red bugs? Interceptor. Majano/Aiptasia? Joe's Juice. That's really all the icky things I have found on corals that have required any treatment. I QT corals from questionable sources, or corals that I buy in poor condition. They are usually just QTed for observation and target feeding.

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

A dip procedure is no a replacement for a proper QT.

I don't QT corals but always dip and this has bit me more than once. I will be investing to $ is upgrading my QT system for corals soon because of it.

I always QT fish. Prazi and thing like that really need more than one treatment to be effective. You also get a chance to observe the fish and make sure it is eating and gets used to you before you put it in a more complicated and competitive environment like your display.

Everything is relative. It depends what types of corals you keep, the size of your system, and how much money it is all worth, your experience in being able to detect icky things, the quality of your coral sources, what you're willing to risk, etc. Wild corals I find pose a greater threat in that you never know what you might get, where frags or corals from existing setups usually potentially only have a handful of pesky critters which are normally easy to see if you inspect the coral, and check out the suppliers' system(s) well. Most coral diseases (brown jelly, black line, rtn, etc) are caused by aquarists' mistakes, poor maintenance, improper setup, etc.

PraziPro, I also believe needs to be used as a medication not a dip to be entirely effective, however, I don't believe that it is good practice to medicate every fish before it enters your system as medicating the fish may inhibit the fishes' future immune system, damage kidneys/liver, or who knows? I medicate a fish ONLY when I know there is an issue, and ONLY when a freshwater dip hasn't worked to what I feel is an effective enough result. I believe that dips are too short to cause damage to a fish provided the concentration isn't too high. For fish, I think the same aspects of relativity apply as I mentioned for corals above.

[Pansy-Paws]

Originally Posted by Myka

PraziPro, I also believe needs to be used as a medication not a dip to be entirely effective, however, I don't believe that it is good practice to medicate every fish before it enters your system as medicating the fish may inhibit the fishes' future immune system, damage kidneys/liver, or who knows? I medicate a fish ONLY when I know there is an issue, and ONLY when a freshwater dip hasn't worked to what I feel is an effective enough result. I believe that dips are too short to cause damage to a fish provided the concentration isn't too high. For fish, I think the same aspects of relativity apply as I mentioned for corals above.

I agree that a 10-15 minute dip in standard drug concentration will not be entirely effective. Instead, I prefer a bath process rather than the long-term immersion recommended on the drug labels, as I've read that the effectiveness and concentration of the drug decreases during the usual treatment periods (due to exposure to light and salt water).

My standard QT process with PraziPro is a concentrated bath for 1.5 to 3 hours. I usually start with a concentration of 20 mg/litre (8 times the long-term dose), and target 1.5 hours. If the fish is not tolerating this concentration, I'll bail on the bath and instead go for 10 mg/litre for 3 hours the next day. I've found that perhaps 1 in 4 fish do not tolerate the higher concentration.

I usually do the bath in a 2 gallon container with an airstone. Given the length of the process, I hang the container inside the QT so that the temperature does not drop. When the bath is finished, I simply pour the 2 gallons and the fish back into the QT. My QT is a 70 gallon tank, and the residual concentration of PraziPro is quickly removed by carbon.

The only regular drug that I do with a long term immersion is chloroquine (for ich and marine velvet), and it doesn't affect the biological cycle.

[Myka]

^ That's the sort of thing that really freaks me out. If the fish isn't tolerating it very well (and 1 in 4 is a huge number!), then I would be concerned about the long-term health of the fish.

[Pansy-Paws]

Originally Posted by Myka

^ That's the sort of thing that really freaks me out. If the fish isn't tolerating it very well (and 1 in 4 is a huge number!), then I would be concerned about the long-term health of the fish.

Myka,

I should probably provide a bit of context on my comments ...

To me, tolerating means not noticeably increasing respiration rate, skin tone remains unchanged, attention to surroundings is constant, and balance and equilibrium remains unaltered. This is similar to the guidelines I use for judging the tolerance of fresh water dips. In contrast, I would categorize gasping at the bottom of the container as something that freaks me out.

I have only treated about 8-10 fish with the 20 mg, and all but 2 have been fine for the 1.5 hour treatment ... probably not a statistically valid sample though. Both of the fish who had trouble with the 20 mg swam through the 10 mg for 3 hours without a problem.

In addition, I wasn't that surprised when the 2 fish showed difficulty with the 20 mg, as they were both in very rough shape (rapid breathing, swollen, blood-red gills), and in my opinion, their long-term prognosis was "dead within a week" if the PraziPro didn't work.

It is also my understanding that public aquariums regulatory treat all new fish arrivals in a 10 mg concentration as a prophylactic treatment, so it's not a new approach. Hope this helps to alleviate some apprehensions about carefully trying out higher concentrations as a bath rather than long-term immersion.

[Myka]

I do like the idea of baths more than dips or several day long treatments.