Pet foods!

[EmilyB]

I try to leave pet nutrition with the specialists, and not to the chicken leg feeders...lol I hope I never have to feed raw chicken...

Seriously, my dogs are indoor dogs and I am imagining giving them a raw chicken leg...

and...someone I know just went raw, and their dog died from salmonella poisoning.

Why raw? The canine in the wild is very short lived. ?

We adopted a greyhound who was on the track for 3 years. All raw. His teeth were horrible. How do you raw feeders deal with that?

[Diana]

I brush the dog's teeth a few times a month (mainly because Taro has a crooked tooth and he gets plaque), but I honestly have not had them on raw long enough to see any degradation in tooth health. If they chew raw bone it should clean their teeth. I can foresee their teeth getting bad on just ground raw food... but my dogs had plaque with kibble too so I believe you should always brush their teeth. Plus they get lots of rawhide chews and stuff.

I would be interested in hearing more about your friend's dog that died from salmonella. What raw food was he/she feeding and where did she get it? Was it frozen properly and/or refrigerated? Was the dog otherwise healthy?

I do not believe wild dogs (and I am mainly thinking wolves) are short-lived. A great book called "Decade of the Wolf" following the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone details the lives of many of the wolves, and most lived average ages for domesticated dogs.... some even pushing 10.

Its interesting to me because people look at dogs in two ways: wild wolves, or domesticated kibble eaters. Have we forgotten the 10,000 years in between? Dogs have been eating table scraps and the leftovers from cleaning human kills for nearly 10,000 years. For the most part they have deviated from consuming fresh kills. But they have been fed kibble for only maybe a bit longer than 100 years (it would be interesting to look into the subject further). My dog's allergies were enough to question their kibble consumption.

Something that pushed me into feeding raw for ethical reasons was an article similar to this one:
http://www.homevet.com/petcare/foodbook.html

I always take everything I hear with a grain of salt, but it was enough to make me at least consider alternative ways. I am otherwise mostly vegetarian (I will consume organic and free range animals occasionally) so it was important for me to also provide my dogs with meat that was treated ethically not only in life but also in death (ie- organic and free range meats).

Ah sorry again for writing so much, but the subject interests me.

-Diana

[heyfredyourhat]

A friend of ours has a dog who has been on raw for nine yrs and had never had any dental work done, not even regular brushing and the teeth were in pretty good shape, no gnarly black junk and breath was decent.


I was always told that dogs cannot get salmonella and ecoli becuase of there very short digestive tract...But if a person with a weakend immune system were to handle the waste, they may come into contact with either germs.

[marie]

Originally Posted by heyfredyourhat

...But if a person with a weakend immune system were to handle the waste, they may come into contact with either germs.

The bacteria can also be present in the animals saliva

[Diana]

Haha yeah, I have to admit I have been hesitant to receive kisses from my dogs since going raw... and there is definitely no longer kisses in the mouth! Okay, I have revealed too much, I am going to bed.

[EmilyB]

Originally Posted by Diana

I would be interested in hearing more about your friend's dog that died from salmonella. What raw food was he/she feeding and where did she get it? Was it frozen properly and/or refrigerated? Was the dog otherwise healthy?

The vet there said it was a fairly common occurence. They couldn't find any other explanation, the dog had eaten raw chicken (in fact the family consumed the same chicken, albeit cooked). Kidney failure took the 7 month old dog in about four days.

Man, I could never go without dog kisses !!!!

[Rbacchiega]

apparently my boys have such an afinity for ear wax and boogers trying to avoid puppy kisses would be useless.

[marie]

I do not believe wild dogs (and I am mainly thinking wolves) are short-lived. A great book called "Decade of the Wolf" following the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone details the lives of many of the wolves, and most lived average ages for domesticated dogs.... some even pushing 10.

I missed this comment last night.
10 is not old for a domesticated dog, yes for some breeds like great danes ect but we had a black lab that lived to be 18yrs old and I have a shih-tzu right now who will be 15 in march. You should at least expect 12-14 happy years out of a dog and more often 16 yrs+ is the norm for the smaller breeds

[Diana]

Of course 10 years is not old for a domesticated dog, thats why I said "average". Some dogs reach only 7 years, some dogs can live well into their teens. I am hoping for 15 years out of my dogs (small breed). Wolves in the wild are often killed by rival packs once they start to slow down, but it is not uncommon for them to live past 10, which IMO is pretty damn good, even for domestic dog standards. The point I was trying to make is that thier lifespans are not "short". But alas, we really cannot compare our domesticates to them, since they are but distant relatives.

[Myka]

10 years for a dog as large as a wolf is quite a long life domesticated or not. Both size of frame and (healthy) weight play into the average expected lifespan of a dog. Marie, have you ever seen a wolf? Do you know how freakin HUGE they are? Like holy hell they are big - oh and scary. Beautiful, but very intimidating. I didn't realise any of this until the last couple months when I have seen several wolves up north. It's funny how beautiful they are from way up in my big (commercial) truck, and how very intimidating they are when I'm on the ground with them!