I'm back with questions...

[Dolf]

Thanks for the replies. I may just go for a 90... really, I want more coral than fish and to fill a 180 with coral may deplete all savings and future earnings. The only thing is that I like the "24 X 24" dimensions rather than "24 X 18" I guess I will see when the right tank comes along...

A DSB, refugium and macro's with no skimmer never was a "popular" set up and most people thought it a horrid idea. However, I kept a few species of coarl that were considered very hard to keep- no SPS. Clams and scallops were also happy and I think that for the first while I will likely run that way- stick with what you know. On that note, does anybody know what happened to Doctor Ron Schmeck? I assume that he has not been convinced into skimmers yet?

[Myka]

You could get a 120g which is 48x24x24" or how about a 60g cube which is 24x24x24"?

Refugiums w/ macros are popular. DSBs eventually fail given a few years most of the time. They are a great way to cause a tank crash down the road. What do you hope to achieve by using a DSB that you can't achieve by using a SSB? I can understand skimmerless (as I run skimmerless myself), however I only recommend that to experienced reef keepers as it provides a plethora of challenges of which most are easily diminished simply by using a quality skimmer.

[Dolf]

I guess I was wanting to keep one or the larger mantis shrimp and considered that a good excuse...

I used to keep a fairly light bioload and had just s small layer of CC on the bottom of the main tank. The refuge flowed through bioballs and then into an area with 4 inches or better of live sand. From there it was into the compartment that contained a large return pump. Everything was actually stable and easy to maintain. I used to buy the argument that skimming took out certain “things” that were good for an aquarium to keep... I remember quite a few people back then saying that it was a horrible way to keep an aquarium- but the results were great for me. I did not keep hard coral and I did not keep anything that was temperamental in that manner. I did keep a couple of corals that, at the time, needed a diet that consisted of the unknown. (They had no symbiotic algae for photosynthesis to help with the diet???) Things may have changed in that regard and I may find after a few months of reading here and the other board that I have a change of heart and breakdown and buy a skimmer. I also may find that I want to keep a different type of coral or a larger bioload (I am considering a Lionfish...) and may need to do something different.

As to the DSB... I would never put it in the display tank... but I think it was a great place for bristle worms and the likes. I would love to find what happened with Dr. Ron and his research... to me he always seemed to be somebody who did the research on keeping a tank in a way that I liked to keep it. Some of his studies and wittings made it easier to believe in how I was keeping the tank when you would have people say that a skimmer was a necessity and a “no brainer.” I realize that you are not one of them and being as you run skimmerless please point me to any new research or ideas that I may have missed in the last couple of years if anything has changed... I may skip the DSB- but that means no large mantis shrimp . I realize that a large mantis would likely defeat the purpose of a DSB anyhow- too much “sand shifting...”