Funny how car maintenance works

[a4twenty]

Originally Posted by dsaundry

If an apprentice is working on your vehicle{we all start as apprentices} It may take him 5-6 hours to do a 3-4 hour job but you arent going to pay 5-6 hours labour.

for ~ $100/hr i don't even want an apprentice to pull my truck into the service bay, let alone work on it. if i'm paying top $$$ for a mechanic i want a licenced mechanic working on it.

the only time i take my truck to the dealership is to get them to fix warranty work, which sadly with the new vehicle is an ongoing relationship but they still try to make it as painful as possible. a simple example......


the factory installed door speakers for my truck were recalled. great news as shortly after pick up they sounded like s**t. they needed to have the vehicle in for a day to make sure they were blown, then order the speakers, then have the truck back for another day to install them. so thats 2 days without a vehicle to replace a factory recall

why??? so they can bill dodge for 2 service calls, regardless of how unnecessary or inconvenient it is to me. i went in to see the manager after work that night and the speakers were ordered right away.

Originally Posted by dsaundry

The manufacturers arent stupid people.. They would like nothing better than see every independent shop other than dealerships disappear.

you're right they aren't stupid people, they just treat us like we are. they need to spend more time on producing a quality vehicle and less time trying to force us to use their service departments.

Originally Posted by dsaundry

Most owners wont take their new vehicle to an independent shop untill it is off warranty..for any repair. Most owners think that if they get their oil changed or their brakes done at another shop it voids their warranty..It does not, so long as it is done at a shop with licenced mechanics.

and were do we get this idea from???? the dealership


when i was buying my latest truck the dealer was trying to to push this mentality on me, offered the first few oil changes for free and tried to get me into a service package. he took me on a tour of their new high tech facility to show me where my vehicle would be serviced. i walked over to the 18 year old pimple faced oil jockey doing a service and said "can i see his licence......." nothing, "well he's an apprentice". "what a none licensed guy performing a service that could void my warranty!!!!"

needless to say i didn't buy their service package and declined on their offer for free oil changes, " i would rather do them myself and have them done right".... "but that will void your warranty"...."no it won't". and if you can believe it his next move was to try and sell me an extended warranty??????


dsaundry, sorry for picking through your post, it was just the most convenient ( being at the end ) and not an attack on you or your post

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by dsaundry

The guide works in 2 ways..the labour rate can be in your favour too. If an apprentice is working on your vehicle{we all start as apprentices} It may take him 5-6 hours to do a 3-4 hour job but you arent going to pay 5-6 hours labour.

But IF said apprentice is working on said vehicle, Is he Not making less wage than the Certified Mech? BUT, your still charging the customer the FULL RATE....

I have some really good friends who are Mechanics, and it was my first choice for a career out of high school, I know a bit about the biz too

[Edmonton Eskimo]

I think it's funny to say that other trades are cheaper to get into. I am a carpenter and have a lot of monet sunk into tools, my shop and my truck(well over 20 grand) and I can't even think about getting away with charging that kind of money. If I try and charge over 45-50 bucks an hour I'll get shot! The real problem is that the dealerships can basically charge whatever they want and there isn't sh#t we can do about it! I think it's absolutely disgraceful that they are going to up their shops rates because they run shitty companies and are going broke.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by dsaundry

One other quick thought about the "noise" is a harmonic balancer starting to fail..common on some "fords" More so on sc t-birds though. Still think its in a rod or bearing ..Sounds like a good summer project..

I think the only summer project here will be washing the new car LOL

Steve

[banditpowdercoat]

Originally Posted by Edmonton Eskimo

I think it's funny to say that other trades are cheaper to get into. I am a carpenter and have a lot of monet sunk into tools, my shop and my truck(well over 20 grand) and I can't even think about getting away with charging that kind of money. If I try and charge over 45-50 bucks an hour I'll get shot! The real problem is that the dealerships can basically charge whatever they want and there isn't sh#t we can do about it! I think it's absolutely disgraceful that they are going to up their shops rates because they run shitty companies and are going broke.

Exactly. I mean, 1 good tablesaw is a little more than a set of wrenches, unless their Snap On LOL. Plus, a carpenter needs a shop, usually a truck, a large truck to haul the tools/work. So he's got alot of overhead there too. I'm an Electrician. I don't need alot of tools, But, some of the specialized ones, cost hundreds each. Besides, were talking SHOP rates here, not the wages the Mech's or grease jockeys get. You can't say the shop charges $100/hr because the Mechanic working on your car, getting $25/hr buys his own tools. Not the shop.

[lorenz0]

If you guys want to get into the money side of it for the tech's/apprentices, its sad how much we don't see. See that $120/hour you are being charged is going into 3 sections of pay. $18-35 of it is going to the tech's wages than $25 of it is going towards the the service advisers wage. The rest is split up into shop supplies, bills and whatever the rest goes. Now you guys don't even want to get me started on service advisers. 99% of the time, they don't know what the **** they are talking about. When i need a go on something cause they need to talk to the customer there are times when i am waiting 10-15min to hear back from them. I have also finished some waiter installs and they won't finish the work order for 20 min. lol i need to stop, otherwise i will rant on for hours about them.

Originally Posted by a4twenty

for ~ $100/hr i don't even want an apprentice to pull my truck into the service bay, let alone work on it. if i'm paying top $$$ for a mechanic i want a licenced mechanic working on it.

In some ways you are right. But than there are some of us out there who are good at what we do. Than again, you do have the chance where you can get a hack job apprentice. We have 2 of them at my dealership and i have fixed problems from both of them. Another thing i would like to point out is how the dealership treats us. right now i am ****ed about how my job, they hired a new tech and moved me into a bay to share with a hacker and i never get to use it. But my point is, without good help around how are we going to learn so that people like you don't know the difference between tech and apprentice work. btw, even with licensed techs you have hack job guys. I have fixed work that a tech has done.

[dsaundry]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmonton Eskimo
I think it's funny to say that other trades are cheaper to get into. I am a carpenter and have a lot of monet sunk into tools, my shop and my truck(well over 20 grand) and I can't even think about getting away with charging that kind of money. If I try and charge over 45-50 bucks an hour I'll get shot! The real problem is that the dealerships can basically charge whatever they want and there isn't sh#t we can do about it! I think it's absolutely disgraceful that they are going to up their shops rates because they run shitty companies and are going broke.

Exactly. I mean, 1 good tablesaw is a little more than a set of wrenches, unless their Snap On LOL. Plus, a carpenter needs a shop, usually a truck, a large truck to haul the tools/work. So he's got alot of overhead there too. I'm an Electrician. I don't need alot of tools, But, some of the specialized ones, cost hundreds each. Besides, were talking SHOP rates here, not the wages the Mech's or grease jockeys get. You can't say the shop charges $100/hr because the Mechanic working on your car, getting $25/hr buys his own tools. Not the shop.

When you own your own business its different, if you work for a company its not the same. I am assuming you are self employed.
How much can you write off? The average auto tech can't write of anything. By being self employed you aren't usually paying out employee benefits, payroll tax's, extra insurance for a tech to drive your vehicle on a road test, and while basic wrench's may be cheaper at Sears, Canadian Tire etc, you need specialized tools from places like Snap-on, Mac, or even special U.S.A. stuff.
The break down on the hourly wage usually goes like this..the average fully licensed tech makes $25-$35 per hour, plus benefits. the service writer will ussually take $20-$25 per hour, plus benefits. so the average pay out for a shop is between $45-$60 per hour, plus the benefits. Now as an independant owner I have a mortgage to pay on my shop and equipment to upgrade and replace. I have to have insurance on not only the buildings and the land but on my employee's as well{I am the service writer} I also pay workers comp premiums, payroll tax, gst etc. Then you have to have a certified accountant to do you books at least once a year as the government wont accept a small business to file the books any other way. I also employ a bookkeeper to keep my accountants bills to a minimum.I also pay monthly for technical programs like all-data and mitchell so my techs have the resourses to repair certain vehicles. Then there is the computer program for the invoicing and the list goes on. So if you think I am making a sh*tload of money, think again. I pay holiday pay for days that the shop doesn't bring in a dime....and still pay tax on it. What abou the time that I spend when I replace a defective part under warranty, and the list goes on. So if your self employed, great, but unless you own a business and employ someone other than yourself you really don't have any idea about costs of running a multi-employee business. Thats not meant to attack anyone but its a fact. When I was an employee, I used to think the owners were raking in the dough, as an owner the view is much different.When I was an employee I used to look forward to my holidays, as an owner I hate the fact I have to pay guys for not working on that day. Big differences...

But IF said apprentice is working on said vehicle, Is he Not making less wage than the Certified Mech? BUT, your still charging the customer the FULL RATE....

I have some really good friends who are Mechanics, and it was my first choice for a career out of high school, I know a bit about the biz too

The apprentice can not usually do the job as fast as the licensed tech, its is the way they balance out. I have not seen too many apprentices that actually make money for their respective shop.

for ~ $100/hr i don't even want an apprentice to pull my truck into the service bay, let alone work on it. if i'm paying top $$$ for a mechanic i want a licenced mechanic working on it.

You certainly have the right to request a fully licensed tech, but how do you expect the apprentice to learn..From a book?? Everybody starts at the beginning in any career and must be allowed to develop. Take this hobby that everybody is on this forum belongs to. How many fish have been lost due to mistakes by beginners, or equipment failure etc. That is why we are here, to learn and hopefully lose less livestock etc. I have read lots of reefkeepng books but until you actually do it you really have no idea. There are lots of different opinions as to what works best as well.

dsaundry, sorry for picking through your post, it was just the most convenient ( being at the end ) and not an attack on you or your post

I didnt view it as an attack, you agreed with some of what I said..

Come on people, you can b*tch and moan about this industry, but how many people actually go to the manager or owner and complain. It is a well known "Fact" that most people just go somewhere else. I have worked in dealerships, franchises and corporate stores and have seen good and bad in all. That said, I openly admit it isn't a perfect industry, but..name one that is-just one!! When was the last time anybody here sent a letter to their MLA and complained about a community problem or a problem in the country. When was the last time you screamed at a bank for the insane profits they make, let alone the fuel companies for raking us over the coals. It's all well and good to vent on a website, but lets face it, for the most part Canadians are really apethetic. Just look at the elections we hold. We keep voting in the same people over and over hoping that we will see this miracle of a balanced budget and fair tax's for all..need I say more?
I am in my business to make money and not to rip people off. I have bills and mouths to feed as well. Unless you have taken a vow of poverty and if you have reef tanks I would kinda think that isnt the case..well maybe just a little we are all out to make as much money as we can and providing for our families. If you could work the same career and make 2-3 times more, would you stay where you are or make the move. Plain truth in most industries is money talks and you know the rest.. I don't condone rip off artists in any industry but they do exist.

[banditpowdercoat]

Acctually, I'm Both self Employed AND employed by a company. Powdercoating is my self employment, and theres tens of thousands of dollars in equip there, But yes, wright off-able. and I am employed as an electrician at a Mine in the North West Territories, 3wks on/off. Cant's write those tools off. I know both sides of the coin.

[heyfredyourhat]

This thread has some good stuff in it! I work in a bodyshop/mechanic shop.
One of our techs once told me the origin of the word apprentice, long story short, "ape-rent-is, or ape for rent" They need to learn and any decent shop would glady allow them to learn, but not let work go out their doors unless it is done properly. But shops do get busy, and people do forget.

One thing that bugs me. If the shop charges 3 hours to fix a job that was done in 45 minutes, why should they exploit the techs skills and pull money away from him by only charging 45 minutes or even one hour? Lets take interior handles on chev pickups (pre 2000 i think) an apprentice we had took about 1.5 hours to change it. I do it easily in 15 minutes. Customer would only pay like .5 or even just throw in a donut fund, then i get screwed, but i do like donuts so its not too too bad

A few of the techs i know have well over a 100K in tools. Scanners and diagnostics tools are in the 10K range each. It adds up. If i had to buy all my tools again right now, including my box, i would guess i'd be looking at close to 15K. We always joke around that we can go buy a hammer and a tool belt for 10 bucks at princess auto and build a house!