Everyones an expert

[mark]

That's the cautions of the internet (and other media), it's just opinions. Some are based on experience, others from who knows where.

As for cyano, can't forget about flow and it's effects.

[trilinearmipmap]

If it was a freshwater plant tank then the advice to supplement nitrate to get rid of cyanobacteria is 100% correct. This is just my opinion from quite a few years of running FW plant tanks, cyano (at least in FW plant tanks) can fix nitrogen in the form of dissolved N2 and therefore can out-compete plants when nitrates are low. I agree with the original poster's statement that people should not offer an opinion on something they know nothing about, we just disagree about who those people are.

[dabandit]

Ive been keeping fresh water for a loooong time allways cured cyano (green) by adding carbon. The only way I can see adding more nitrate helping would be it would increase the number of beneficial bacteria but that could take up to a full cycle. Are you not just fueling the cyano in the mean time?

I realise that there are many opinions as far as fishkeeping goes,but every piece of literature I've ever read aswell as my personal experiences say phosphate and nitrate are the cause of cyano not the cure and overstocking your tank will lead to ammonia build up and a palethera of algaes and cyano's Where are you getting this from that nitrate is a cure for cyano I'm wondering?

[dabandit]

Dude I keep fresh water planted tanks for 12 years and have scientific facts to prove me right. Show me your data,you seriouslly believe that overstocking a tank will cure cyano? better yet do you believe this is best way to go about it? Believe me if I didnt know what I was talking about I wouldnt say a damn thing.
Are you saying im wrong?

[justinl]

dabandit, while i agree that people who have no idea what they are talking about shouldn't talk, you are currently shooting yourself in the foot. There are quite a few cyanobacteria species that are known as nitrogen fixers. At low levels of nitrogen (at normal phosphorus levels), usually in the form of nitrate for obvious reasons, nitrogen fixers outcompete other algal species in natural settings. This is what Ive learned from my university limnology class... there's plenty of scientific papers detailing this mechanism if you're willing to look for it. Granted that in captive systems, all bets are off, because our systems only emulate nature in the barest of degrees. is the best way to stock more (but not overstock... i dont think that's what he meant)? maybe, maybe not, but there's merit to it at least.

edit: "are you saying im wrong?" now who's the expert?

[Samw]

Originally Posted by justinl

dabandit, while i agree that people who have no idea what they are talking about shouldn't talk, you are currently shooting yourself in the foot. There are quite a few cyanobacteria species that are known as nitrogen fixers. At low levels of nitrogen (at normal phosphorus levels), usually in the form of nitrate for obvious reasons, nitrogen fixers outcompete other algal species in natural settings. This is what Ive learned from my university limnology class... there's plenty of scientific papers detailing this mechanism if you're willing to look for it.

Interesting. OK, just for fun and my self learning, I did some Googling.


http://www.environmentalleverage.com...nobacteria.htm

"The presence of large amounts of tetrads or Cyanobacteria in a wastewater treatment system can indicate a severe nutrient deficiency, typically nitrogen."
"Tetrads and cyanobacteria are usually found in environments where there are low levels of nitrogen present. "
" Usually increasing nitrogen levels in the influent often causes them to disappear quite quickly as opposed to adding high levels of polymer to try to drop them out. "
"Low nutrient levels and high BOD are usually the cause of tetrads and cyanobacteria. Ammonia should be increased in the influent and usually with a little bit of time they disappear."

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1151820

"Nitrate and Phosphate Affect Cultivability of Cyanobacteria from Environments with Low Nutrient Levels

Nitrate and phosphate concentrations higher than those found in the natural environment slowed down growth of two strains of non-bloom-forming, phycoerythrin-rich Synechococcus spp. isolated from mesotrophic subalpine lakes.

For both strains, high initial nitrate and phosphate concentrations delayed growth. "


http://gwapa.org/wordpress/articles/...-aquarium/#bga

"Causes:

Low nitrates - Usually present when all of the nitrogen/nitrate has been removed from the water column. While this is a triggering condition, it is also exacerbated by the bacteria itself using any remaining nitrogen.

Cures:

Increase nitrates - Dose nitrates until the concentration reaches ~5ppm. "


http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm

"Cause Often caused by very low nitrates. It is fairly common to have it growing in the substrate against the front glass from where it can spread. "

"Removal A blackout is the best method for this. Clean out as much of the algae as you can and do a 30 to 50% water change. If your nitrates are low then add some potassium nitrate to get levels to 20ppm. "

http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com...aquariums.html

"To protect the Nitrogenase from oxygen, many nitrogen-capturing Cyanobacteria (usually of the filamentous variety) have developed special nitrogen-fixing cells called Heterocysts encased in thickened cell walls. Because of this ability, low nitrate levels are generally not the key to stopping this plague."


http://www.aquatic-eden.com/2006/10/...algae-bga.html

"Causes: Low nitrate levels (NO3), "dead spots" of low water circulation, organic waste build-up
Prevention: Dose nitrates (NO3), add powerheads to aid circulation, frequent water changes and do not over-feed"

"Since it can fix its own nitrogen, a lack of nitrates gives it an advantage over plants. If nitrates are not high enough, it will quickly find a dead spot to start a colony and begin growing extremely rapidly."

http://www.bioremediate.com/algae.htm

"Nitrogen fixation is the process of converting unusable nitrogen (atmospheric nitrogen) into usable nitrogen (ammonia). This characteristic allows these species to exist in areas where low nitrogen availability inhibits growth. Therefore, under phosphorus-rich conditions, when nitrogen may be limited, blue-green cyanobacteria algae have a competitive advantage because they can utilize ("fix") nitrogen directly. "

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by dabandit

Dude I keep fresh water planted tanks for 12 years and have scientific facts to prove me right. Show me your data,you seriouslly believe that overstocking a tank will cure cyano? better yet do you believe this is best way to go about it? Believe me if I didnt know what I was talking about I wouldnt say a damn thing.
Are you saying im wrong?

What's with this guy? It seems pretty obvious who thinks he's an expert. Lets see your data Mr. Expert.

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by dabandit

Dude I keep fresh water planted tanks for 12 years and have scientific facts to prove me right. Show me your data,you seriouslly believe that overstocking a tank will cure cyano? better yet do you believe this is best way to go about it? Believe me if I didnt know what I was talking about I wouldnt say a damn thing.
Are you saying im wrong?

You are arguing about something that was started on another forum. This whole above statement seems very abrasive for an issue that originated from somewhere else. One of the main reasons I stick to this forum is the friendly atmosphere on here. I don't see the merit in carrying over or trying to start a fight on here.

It sounds like you let the person know what you thought on the other site (which is fine) but now it seems like you're trying to get others on this forum to validate your opinion. Everyone has different opinions and everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's one thing to politely state your opinion but it's another to try to force your opinion on others. While it's nice to be validated not everyone is going to agree with what you have to say. Please be willing to except that fact and allow yourself to move on.

[trilinearmipmap]

Sorry if my post was a little obnoxious, sometimes when I am tired and have a headache I can be an ornery bastard. Now that I have had my workout I feel more human.

I don't have any science to back me up. I have advice from experts and personal experience.

In the past whenever I have had cyanobacteria issues (in a freshwater planted tank) one of the main causes has been low to zero nitrates and the cure has been either supplement nitrates or increase feeding. Depending on the light and CO2 levels, a nitrate level of 5 ppm to 20 ppm is the general consensus target.

The other major contributor to freshwater cyanobacteria from my experience has been low flow.

Erythromycin is a quick cure but the cyano comes back if the root causes (low nitrate and stagnant flow areas) are not addressed.

Most experienced plant people, and in particular Tom Barr who is generally recognized as a FW plant expert, do not feel that elevated nitrates or elevated phosphates will cause algae, as long as light, CO2, flow, macronutrients and micronutrients are all available. That has been my experience too.

Anyway the fundamental issue is, on a discussion forum people should discuss, if someone wants to claim this or that additive will cure algae, fine with me, discuss it and debate it and in the end we will find the truth, with a lot of zigs and zags along the way.

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by trilinearmipmap

Sorry if my post was a little obnoxious,

Personally, your post wasn't the obnoxious one.