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#11
11-28-2008, 09:42 AM
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I just got into this, but I'm going to make an attempt to make this hobby affordable. This is my projection based on the reading that I've done ( a couple books ), the amount of reading, and the past 4 weeks that my tank has been running and how much I've experienced in terms of setting up the tank, re-purchases, etc...
What I wrote is gonna be cheap. Most of it is going the super cheapest route not only for setup, but for long, cheap, student life haul. Just be realistic, the cheaper you go, the more risk you run of this project going completely downhill. I'm being cold here, I'm not thinking best water quality, health of fish, etc... I'm thinking of what you can setup, that will probably run, your fish will probably not die, and you will be able to keep a system without a ton of upkeep ( since you lack time + money ). Set up: You can buy most of the equipment for cheap, a lot cheaper than in stores, the question is whether you have the patience for it. Lighting, skimmer, tank, heater, LR, etc... you can either get it for really cheap or for some of these items even free. You already mentioned your pump that will be needed, but...you will probably want an overflow of some sort when sending water to your refugium, you won't want your livestock getting sent over to it all the time and then getting it pumped back up ( since they'll kick the bucket ). You could also ghetto it and put some sort of soft mesh, or retrofit a strainer so nothing goes from the display to the refugium/sump thing you're frankensteining. Decision: So right here, let's say: aquarium + hoses for free. I think I saw a 40/50 gal Overflow for - $40 salt 160gal Instant Ocean - $40 Total: $80 So, main components, costs, side effects: 1 - Water Changes Thoughts: I think the thing about this is that you'll be wanting to use RO water. People mentioned that, and things are gonna get expensive quickly if you buy the water. In the long run, a RO system will make sense for you. The stress from this will also be dependent on how heavy the bioload is. ( I'd say the RO system is gonna save you a lot of money in the long run, so i'd say prioritize one ) If you wanna go super cheap and say screw it to the RO and buying water, you'll need a filter of some sort. You'll want to do something with carbon and phosphate remover otherwise you'll run into some maintenance issues. If you don't do this, your tank will be an algea nightmare with some crappy water quality. Decision: I went really cheap. I'd buy an used House RO system for 40 bucks from craigslist. Probably better water quality and cheaper than using a conditioner/filter to try to better the water quality. I'd maybe get some carbon/phosphate remover in a bag and simply make sure it sits in the bucket when the salt mixes for an extra $20. I don't want crazy algea outbreaks from high Phosphate in the water. http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/hsh/903278804.html House RO system - $40 Carbon / Phosphate Remover ( in a bag )- $20 Total: $60 2 - Skimmer Thoughts: This will influence how many water changes you're gonna have to do. Invest in a good one and your tank will be healthier overall ( since it will keep a stable water quality level ). If you invested in a RO system, you basically are saving the price of the Skimmer as long as you do water changes often. ( Possibly low priority, dependant on the RO unit. Get an RO unit, and you can pretty much scratch this one off the list ) Decision: You bought the RO unit, let's say you can do your water changes Total: $0 3 - Filter Thoughts: Since we can buy an house RO system for $40, I'd do that and then buy some filter media and simply use it when mixing the water. If we went to buy a filter instead of the used house RO system, it would cost more than the RO system and probably be less beneficial. http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/pf...er+Filter.html We are talking cheap here after all. Decision: I decided to go with the filter media and use it when mixing the water. Total: $0 ( I already counted the $20 when buying the RO unit ). 4 - Lighting Thoughts: This will be a big factor, dependant mostly on what you wanna keep. If you want a cheap setup, this area is going to get you. Insert corals into the mix and you're raising your cost here by at least $130. You can buy some crappy PC lighting for cheap but you will still be able to run your tank. Decision: Let's say the tank comes with a canopy, One 10,000K and one Actinic Total: $50 5 - Flow Thoughts: I think the cost here is pretty small overall, get a single 3 Water Pump Koralia and you should be good for the tank ( $50 bucks ). You can probably buy a used one for pretty cheap. Decision Might sound stupid, but you need to take it into consideration, mixing the salt. You'll want a powerhead or something to stir up the water. I share this with the one in my tank, so when I need to mix salt, I take out the powerhead and put it in the bucket. Shared powerhead ( tank + mixing ) Total: $50 6 - Sand Thoughts: Depends on what you want, you can get some for free probably if you shop around and even if you choose to not do a DSB you'll still get some benefits from it. Decision: I like the look, helps with the balance of the tank and gives me some good bacteria to help out with making things healty. Plus, I can find it for free: $0 If not: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46972 Total ( Worst Scenario ): $20 bucks in Richmond. 7 - Live Rock Thoughts: Well, there is no question here. Get some, I think I found some adds in the livestock area for $1/lb. Decision: There is no decision to make, I buy some rubble. http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46443 I'd bug the crap out of fortheloveofcrabs to see if I could get some rock shipped. Might be cheaper overall. Or you can wait in vancouver and find some cheap rock, I've seen it from $2-4 bucks a lbs. Let's high-end this used rock at $4 a pound, x 40 ( going light on the rocks ) = $160 ( a fairly average, price outside of the LFS ). If fortheloveofcrabs ships @ $1/lbs + shipping, the shipping is probably cheaper than $120 which makes more sense than getting 40lbs from the LFS. Total ( Worst Scenario ): $160 8 - Heater Thoughts: Buy a used one, I'm sure you can find one cheap or free. Decision: Bought a new one, this stuff is crucial and I want something good. http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/ht...+150+Watt.html Total: $32 9 - Everything else.... Well you are gonna need a few extra things that add up the cost, cause these are minimal, but you need to get them. Hydrometer, Food, Test Kits, possibly some additives. If you're using tap water, you might want to get some water treatment conditioners. This stuff adds up: Hydrometer: $14 Food: $40 ( frozen brine shrimp, flakes, Phytoplankton ) - I'm going as cheap as possible if you wanna keep corals Test Kits: $60 Total: $114 Summary: This is not including ANY livestock. I would definately invest in a skimmer, you don't have much time. Having to do these water changes constantly will get the best of you. I would also spend the money on a skimmer, even if it's a crappy one. I bought a Red Sea Prizm ( I know they are bad ) for $30 bucks. It works and it helps with aeration and circulation. This will give you less of a headache. I would not go crazy with this tank, I'd set up a good ammount of snails and some sand sifters to clean up the tank. And probably only keep a few small fish, with a few coral dependant on the lighting. Salt + Overflow + Tank Setup = Total: $80 Home RO System + Filter Media = Total: $60 Skimmer = Total: $0 Filter = Total: $0 Lighting = Total: $50 Flow = Total: $50 Sand = Total: $20 ( Worst Case ) Live Rock = Total: $160 ( Worst Case ) Heater = Total $32 Everything Else = $114 Grand Total: $566 + taxes You could bump this up to $700- $750 + taxes ( about $30 in taxes since most of it is used ) and be able to afford yourself some much better lighting and a cheap skimmer ( like mine ). You can go cheaper, and possibly find more stuff for free, but I'm trying to average a "realistic & cheap" budget. ________ medical marijuana Last edited by moldrik; 01-24-2011 at 02:03 PM. 
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#12
11-28-2008, 12:22 PM
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This hobby is great and I think everyone should do it but from experience it is expensive
to say the least. And after forking out the big bucks it is also time consuming I would not even care to guess at the time I spend on my tanks, granted I am a perfectionist. If I remember from the early days trips to the L.F.S. for something or other seemed non-stop Maybe some one out there may agree with me on this that even after buying good stuff you still spend time fixing stuff...or is that just my bad luck. I would never dream of running a tank without a skimmer. You are setting yourself up for dissapointment it can be and is frustrating even at the best of times. lol
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#13
11-28-2008, 03:32 PM
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Take a look through the buy/sell section here on CanReef. There is *alot* of good deals to be had! Instead of being 'cheap', be practical and buy second hand
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28g Nano Cube drilled with 13g sump in stock stand. Vertex IN80 Skimmer, Phosban 150 Reactor, Apex Controller, DIY LED with stock hood, dimmable Established March 2006 Last edited by brizzo; 11-28-2008 at 03:36 PM.
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#14
11-28-2008, 03:59 PM
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If I wanted to get my hands wet for bottom dollar without cutting unreasonable corners I would:
- NOT use a DSB. They do NOTHING for nutrient export; they just trap them until they reach critical mass and then release them back into the system. Use bare bottom or shallow crushed coral so that you can siphon out the crud. Yes I used to run one. There are extra costs for all the sand and the 'critters' that you supposedly need. Plus there is the loss of useable tank volume (an 18" tall tank becomes a 14" tall tank with a 4" DSB). - Look for used lighting in the Buy/Sell section. You CAN save money if you go DIY if you know what you are doing. However, for first timers you usually end up spending more money and much more time experimenting until you get it right and even then you often have a ghetto system that looks marginal with no resale value. - Not bother with a skimmer. I see absolutely no problem going skimmerless if you are sticking with a lower stocking level and soft/lps corals. IMO, like every industry there is propoganda to increase consumer consumption. Good skimmers cost a fair bit and cheap ones are next to worthless. I would only consider skimmers 'necessary' if you are pushing the envelope with stocking levels (not a good idea anyway) or if you want to go with SPS (in which case you have to buck up for other things as well.) Water changes and siphoning are the best forms of nutrient removal and for the price of a good skimmer you can buy a lot of salt mix. Down the road when budget permits, consider adding one. - Go sumpless. Smaller tanks have thinner glass which have a good chance of breaking when drilled. Even if you succeed in drilling you have to buy the fittings and plumbing, build an overflow box, and buy a return pump. Again, more time and money. If the tank does well you will probably want to upgrade down the road, then budget for what you want (bigger tank, reef ready, skimmer, Ca reactor, SPS, etc). In the meantime go for the simplest system but buy quality gear. In the hobby, equipment failures can cost you orders of magnitude more than the amount you saved on cheap gear.
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#15
11-28-2008, 04:42 PM
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I'm no expert in marine aquariums, but have you thought about setting up a nano tank. You could pick up a pico 3 gallon tank for around $60, and it comes with a light and a filter. You'd need to get a small heater, but that's about it. I've seen some very nice set ups on nano-reef.com with little more than that tank - some of the guys have upgraded their filters and lighting, but it would be fairly cheap. Just a thought.
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Frank Baby-stepping my way into the hobby
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#16
11-28-2008, 05:43 PM
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I am a firm believer in the health of our critters. If going the "cheapest possible route" and "seeing if i can do it" or squeaking by just barely means your critters will suffer then they are better left in the ocean or at the store. We have a responsibility as aquarists to provide the best care in our means to these critters, and if that means no skimmer and the fewest waterchanges possible on a small tank you are setting yourself up for disaster. And no one on here wants to see anyone fail. I agree that there are cheap ways of getting into the hobby, but even at that level there are fundamental things you need to do lieu of something else like a skimmer (regular waterchanges) The addition of supplements, nutrient export. Which all in the long run adds up. I always tell friends who come by and are dazzled by my tank, who are considering setting one up for themselves that this is liekly one of the most expensive hobbies to get into. Ive added my bills up and over the last three years and have spent something like 11,000 dollars on equipment and live stock and ive only got a 90 gallon and chose to go the "medium route on most things) im guessing that my total doesnt hold a candle to what some people spend on theirs.
All i am saying is think long and hard before making a commitment to this hobby if the time isnt right. Often new people who come upon disaster loose hope and leave the hobby, no one wants to see that. Reefking is a long term hobby some fish will live 20 years, and coral given the proper care, will go on and on. Good luck with your choices and if you choose to continue, welcome to the hobby!
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"120 Gallon - Fastest Build in the West" 20Gal Sump, 2x 250 PFO Metal Hallides running 2 20k XM Bulbs, 2X54 HOT5 1 KZ Coral Light 1 Fiji Purple, Euroreef RS 100 Skimmer, Quiet One 6000 Return Pump, 2X Tunze 6025, Nano Wavebox ~To Live Is To Reef~
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#17
11-28-2008, 05:54 PM
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#18
11-28-2008, 06:10 PM
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I highly agree. With my tank, the only thing that I need to be careful with is space, so I don't have a lot of room to work with, so I need a compact system for skimming, etc.. However, I would definately spend the money. I love fish and I want to make sure that I have the right stuff to keep them healthy and happy.
I can see his perspective that he wants to keep a tank and he is low on funds. And yeah, the "responsible" route is to not get one, save your money, and invest it or something ( stocks are really low right now! ). The more you cut corners and the more you cheap out, the worst of a headache you will have and the more money you will spend in the end replacing stuff that doesn't work as well as it should. So really, investing that extra $40 here and there, in the end, will save you money. For you, living the student life, I think it's a matter of buying one thing at a time, for the right price, until you got most things ready to go. Someone mentioned this as well, but if I wanted to go cheap, I would cut the sump/refugium that you're planning on setting up. You don't NEED it, and the keyword here is that: NEED. You WANT to keep an aquarium, so what do you NEED to keep it running properly, with good water condition, for the next X years ( right, years ). ________ Suzuki GT380 Last edited by moldrik; 01-24-2011 at 02:03 PM.
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#19
11-28-2008, 11:13 PM
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#20
11-29-2008, 12:25 AM
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I appreciate everyones' honest opinions. People get passionate about things they care about and I can appreciate that as long as theres a level of civility and decorum even if we are on the anonymous web. So far no issues.
 Perhaps I came off as too desperate and too cash strapped. I am a full-time student but a returning student rather than someone out of highschool so I am not completely destitute. Honestly, I could buy the Bubbleking without going on a cup noodle diet. Should I be buying it? maybe not, but could I buy it? then probably yes. What my intention is is to try and do things a bit differently. I know that T5HOs are the ideal flourescent fixture for a reef setup as everyone has said and I have read everywhere. However, I am challenging myself to do something for the lowest cost possible. This is something that I have found myself to enjoy. That means T8s and all the other stuff I mentioned. Would I be better off going with T5s in terms of setting up a successful reef? Absolutely. Would it be more interesting to see if I could do it with T8s? In my point of view yes. Beyond a better form factor and higher light concentrations I don't really see why T8s cannot function just as well as T5s when brilliant light isn't needed and the colours are right. I always intended to use 10K+ lamps no matter what. This is a intellectual exercise at the moment anyway since I don't even know where or if I can get T8 lamps such as these. Thanks for the opinions on the DSB. If I go ahead that means no DSB for me. Also regarding the water changes, I meant what I said about the least number of changes possible, but it would really depend on how things go. As for the ethical argument regarding keeping livestock in the best possible conditions. It is a good and valid argument against what I propose. It is something I will continue to consider. However, if everyone truly put the well being of the animals above other considerations then this website should not exist at all since they all belong in the seas. What I mean to say is that this is a highly subjective area and every person will come up with a different answer. Oh yeah thats moldrik for your lengthy posts Last edited by NewGuy; 11-29-2008 at 12:28 AM.
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