Awsome T5 Pendants By Fauna Marin

[Canadian]

Can you give me a rough timeline? Originally it was posted that they would be released in January. I know Fauna Marin has had some issues with delayed releases in the past.

As far as GrimReefer's "testing" goes I'd forget it. If you look back on the history of the "testing" done by Hahn and Grim on RC you'll see that they've made so many mistakes that it's impossible to draw any conclusions from their results. For instance, Grim recently found that he wasn't properly handling the T5 lamps correctly and providing sufficient settling and burn-in time when testing the lamps. Prior to that he reported that ATI lamps had "the best" PAR. Now he's having to re-evaluate things. Additionally, he and Hahnmeister incorrectly assumed that T5 lamps required cooling along the length of the lamp. Now they (and we) know that there's a cold spot that needs cooling and nothing else. They also thought that keeping things as cool as possible was the best idea - now they know that overcooling the lamp drops its output.

That's why I laugh when hobbyists perform "tests" of things. Unfortunately those "tests" lack adequate control and often lack sufficient validity. To this point the only test results I'm at all interested in seeing are those by Sanjay if he ever publishes them.

[Aqua-Digital]

This is why testing will not be done initially by hobbyists but instead dealers that carry more than one type of fixture

The tubes fitted will be of course Fauna Marin Aqua Science or theyre new generation if ordered with tubes, standard will be minus tubes

Dates, they are already in the process of manufacture, and any delay will be due to santa, but I am working hard to get round that one.

First batch will be as follows

24w 4 tube
39w 6 tube
54w 8 tube
80w 10 tube

Dimmable yet to be assigned as we are still testing ballasts.

Dimmable will launch after standard

[Canadian]

So how long am I likely to have to wait for a 6 or 8 lamp 24" fixture? If it's going to be after January I'm going to have to look at other options.

[Aqua-Digital]

As I said before we anticipate lamps to be launched in january, and as i also said before if you give me your requirements I can fast track this for you to see if I can get it here sooner.

The order will be taken through progressive reef being your closest stockist.

ALL dealers of ours will carry these and we have massive interest in new dealers also.

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by Aqua-Digital

As I said before we anticipate lamps to be launched in january, and as i also said before if you give me your requirements I can fast track this for you to see if I can get it here sooner.

So lamps will be launched in January but that doesn't tell me when the fixtures will be released. On ReefCentral I said I'd like a 6 lamp 24" fixture, so I'll say the same thing here. But if I can get a quote on a 8 lamp I'd also be interested in that (depending on whether or not there's a difference in time for production or if the cost is prohibitive).

Thanks.

[trilinearmipmap]

Originally Posted by Canadian

As far as GrimReefer's "testing" goes I'd forget it. If you look back on the history of the "testing" done by Hahn and Grim on RC you'll see that they've made so many mistakes that it's impossible to draw any conclusions from their results.

Well I have to disagree.

Of course if I had 100 identical reef tanks and could randomly assign different lighting units to the different tanks and compare them for PAR and coral growth that would be great. Since no one has the money or time to do that we have to settle for the next best thing. Grim's testing, although imperfect, is a valid source of information. Another source of information is people's experience with a piece of equipment. For example if you read 500 postings stating that brand X skimmer is a good skimmer then you can be pretty confident in buying brand X skimmer. However there won't be much accumulated experience with these new light fixtures until a year or two has gone by.

We lack objective scientific information about most of the equipment we buy. Anecdotal reports by other hobbyists, and testing such as has been done by GrimReefer, is the best we have to go on. And I won't be buying any expensive equipment for my tank unless it has either been endorsed by many other hobbyists, or had some comparative testing done, or both.

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by trilinearmipmap

Well I have to disagree.

Grim's testing, although imperfect, is a valid source of information.

We lack objective scientific information about most of the equipment we buy. Anecdotal reports by other hobbyists, and testing such as has been done by GrimReefer, is the best we have to go on. And I won't be buying any expensive equipment for my tank unless it has either been endorsed by many other hobbyists, or had some comparative testing done, or both.

By definition Grim's tests can't be deemed valid considering how unreliable they are. Grim's tests have been so "imperfect" that they are essentially useless. Go back on RC and see where Grim, himself, has recognized that he needs to re-do his lamp "testing" to make it more reliable and valid. I appreciate that hobbyists take it upon themselves to try to objectively measure some of the things in our hobby but they tend to just bolster the perpetuation of misinformation under the guise of being "facts" obtained from "testing".

I don't expect to see randomized controlled trials for any of our equipment. But given the sketchy history of misinformation and poor "testing" done by many hobbyists I would be more inclined to base an equipment choice on anecdotal reports than misguided "testing". At least I know I won't be deluding myself into believing something that is dogma and I'll know that my decision is simply based on recommendations.

[Melonbob]

Originally Posted by Canadian

By definition Grim's tests can't be deemed valid considering how unreliable they are. Grim's tests have been so "imperfect" that they are essentially useless. Go back on RC and see where Grim, himself, has recognized that he needs to re-do his lamp "testing" to make it more reliable and valid. I appreciate that hobbyists take it upon themselves to try to objectively measure some of the things in our hobby but they tend to just bolster the perpetuation of misinformation under the guise of being "facts" obtained from "testing".

I don't expect to see randomized controlled trials for any of our equipment. But given the sketchy history of misinformation and poor "testing" done by many hobbyists I would be more inclined to base an equipment choice on anecdotal reports than misguided "testing". At least I know I won't be deluding myself into believing something that is dogma and I'll know that my decision is simply based on recommendations.

I see your point, but people like grim, although flawed in their research, have no financial incentive for skewing results. Give a light to a dealer to test, and hes gonna sit down and go, "Which one of these lights gives me the largest profit?" Every dealer I've EVER dealt with assures me their product is better than the other guys, and if he sells both, he'll tell you the more expensive one is better without fail

[Canadian]

Originally Posted by Melonbob

I see your point, but people like grim, although flawed in their research, have no financial incentive for skewing results. Give a light to a dealer to test, and hes gonna sit down and go, "Which one of these lights gives me the largest profit?" Every dealer I've EVER dealt with assures me their product is better than the other guys, and if he sells both, he'll tell you the more expensive one is better without fail

I agree. But you know to expect this. And you know to take a dealer's recommendations with some skepticism. My concern is that people see "testing" done by "unbiased" hobbyists and quickly latch onto the results as being points of "fact" when the test results are usually invariably flawed or simply false. Then the problem becomes that those faulty test results get punted around on discussion boards (for example) as being based on strict unbiased testing despite the results being invalid. This makes those results more dangerous than the recommendations of the dealer, who most know to take with a grain of salt.

[Telford]

What are the dimensions of the fixtures going to be?