POLL : Reeflo Orca 250/ BK Super Marine 250 / BK Super Marine 300

[Chin_Lee]

Thank you for all who contributed to the poll. Well its a dead tie between the Orca and Supermarine so I decided to go with the Orca. The main reason is because its external, cheaper, and Reeflo gave me one hell of a deal. Here's a quick story on good customer support:
I emailed them (Reeflo) asking then what my options are since I had bought an Orca NW pump from them in JUNE 2007 and I have come to realize that I won't be able to get around to making my own DIY skimmer. I also asked them I had bought the pump before the ORCA skimmer was introduced and I was very interested in the Orca 250 skimmer. They came back with a reply that they would sell me an Orca 250 with GOLD DART pump for $1190 shipped and if I were to return the pump to them, they will give me $230 credit for the pump. Considering I had paid about $270 for the pump, it was only $40 loss and I got a great deal from Reeflo.

Two thumbs up for these guys. I'm now anxiously waiting for the arrival of my Orca 250 skimmer with the gold ORCA NW pump.

I will update pictures after I've picked up my skimmer. I'm heading to Hawaii on Nov 5 and returning on the 13 which is when I'll be picking up the skimmer from a parcel outlet. Looking forward to it.........

[sphelps]

Wow I wish I saw this earlier, I could have probably changed your mind. First off the BK SM 300 is newer and I've got one sitting on my work bench ready for an install for a customer. That makes me one of the few to actually see this skimmer. It has two pumps but one is much smaller than the other one, it's a little bigger than the 250 but really it's basically the same so I would say go with the 250 over the 300 unless you want to run ozone since the 300 has ozone ports. I could have even taking pictures for you.

Also I can't believe someone would actually want one of those Orcas, seriously bad idea. It uses an external dart pump in a way I would almost guarantee you'll get a seal and bearing failure after about a year or so. Plus the pump uses around 150W compared to less than 50. Don't be fooled by the 120W rating look at the flow charts. The thing is oversized putting more into height than width which makes very little sense, it won't fit under a stand and results in the pump using more power than it needs and will bring in less air due to a higher static pressure. Plus have fun taking that collection cup off with all the plastic screws that will eventually were out, and that plastic looks pretty thin. Not solid construction at all, very similar to a Life-Reef which may have been good at the time but ask anyone that still has one what they think of it. Can you even clean the orca out, or is it one big piece of acrylic glued together, The BKs can be completely dismantled for a full cleaning including the diffuser plate.

For the extra $400 you could have gotten the BK 250, what a shame. The 250 would have lasted you forever and you would have always been happy with it. Maybe it's not too late??

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by sphelps

Also I can't believe someone would actually want one of those Orcas, seriously bad idea.
For the extra $400 you could have gotten the BK 250, what a shame.

Well, if it were me, I would have made the same choice. The BKs are way over priced for a bunch of plastic glued together, and the fact that I don't have $400 bills growing on trees would have been a big factor...

Congrats, Chin, on a good choice...

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Well, if it were me, I would have made the same choice. The BKs are way over priced for a bunch of plastic glued together, and the fact that I don't have $400 bills growing on trees would have been a big factor...

Congrats, Chin, on a good choice...

I would say the BKs are under priced and the orca is overpriced, the BKs use CNC machining and nothing but top quality plastic built like a rock. Nice and thick as appose to as thin as possible. The orca looks like it's ready to break before water hits it, even the pictures on the website show some parts of the skimmer are crooked. Maybe $400 is a lot but when you're already spending $1200 it's not that bad and actually I believe it's only $300 to correct myself.

[Delphinus]

I don't doubt the quality of BK's at all, but .. and maybe I'm just the odd one out on this .. but ... everytime I hear about how well they are put together and how beautiful the seams are, I feel it's like saying "I'm going to buy a Porsche because the fenders are attached to the frame with really nice fasteners." Beyond that it shouldn't fall apart given reasonable use, it's a detail I really don't care about in a skimmer and it alone doesn't justify the cost to me. For me the considerations are performance, reliability, ease of use, size, and the balance between up-front cost versus total cost of ownership. Beyond that I don't really care if it's made of acrylic, glass, PVC or something else, or how pretty the welds are. But again maybe it's just me.

But having said that, I know that the BK is an overacheiver in those other categories. So for me it comes down to the energy usage: I'd consider it if my electrical footprint gets reduced. But then it comes down to what kind of timeframe the savings compensate for the initial up front cost. If we're talking about 5 years or beyond, you have to take into consideration that tanks with that kind of longevity are fairly rare things...

[Chin_Lee]

Wow I wish I saw this earlier, I could have probably changed your mind. First off the BK SM 300 is newer and I've got one sitting on my work bench ready for an install for a customer.

But being newer really doesn't really equate to anything. It may be the most recent design but the fact its newer doesn't necessary mean better.

That makes me one of the few to actually see this skimmer. It has two pumps but one is much smaller than the other one, it's a little bigger than the 250 but really it's basically the same so I would say go with the 250 over the 300 unless you want to run ozone since the 300 has ozone ports. I could have even taking pictures for you.

that was my thing with the 250 over the 300. I was paying an extra 400 for a smaller pump. Probably because two bigger pumps would have probably been too much for the size of the skimmer but still a lot of money for a pump. Also I do run Ozone which was another factor.

Also I can't believe someone would actually want one of those Orcas, seriously bad idea.

Have you owned one to be able to corroborate this statement?

It uses an external dart pump in a way I would almost guarantee you'll get a seal and bearing failure after about a year or so. Plus the pump uses around 150W compared to less than 50, and the thing is oversized putting more into height than width which makes very little sense. Plus have fun takign that collection cup off with all the plastic screws that will eventually were out, and that plastic looks pretty thin. Not solid construction at all, very similar to a Life-Reef which may have been good at the time but ask anyone that still has one what they think of it.

Actually the pump max is 120W and is actually slightly lower with more air mixture. Compared to the 300 which is 80 watts combined for the two pumps, a difference of 40 watts was insignificant considering the price difference. I think it will take me 15 years to make up the difference for $1000 at 40 watts.
I did some research on the collection cup and noted that its keyholed meaning I only have to loosen slightly, twist and the cup comes off. I've PM about 6-7 owners of the ORCA 250 and they all do not have any issues with the removal of the collection cup. In my situation, the skimmer will be right beside the sink beside the sump and I have a garden hose attachment to the faucet. So I don't even have to remove the collection cup. I will install a hose from the drain into the sink and when I need to, I'll be hosing the inside of the collection cup to clean it.
Most plastics look thin in pictures but a little research goes a long way rather than making misleading assumptions. The entire skimmer is made of 1/4" cast acrylic - not thin at all in my standards and my experience with making skimmers.

For the extra $400 you could have gotten the BK 250, what a shame. The 250 would have lasted you forever and you would have always been happy with it.

Well a big factor in my case is the external skimmer factor. I do keep breeding fish and smaller animals in my sump which I didn't want to get sucked into any skimmers. I've already lost a couple of bangaii's who perished due me test-driving some skimmers in my sump. I have seen some BK from local reefers and I do admit they are good construction. In this case though, the Orca is pushing 2545 liters per hour of air with one pump and BK300 is pushing 3000-3600 liters per hour with two pumps. Maybe I should modifiy it for two reeflo pumps for 5000 lph on my new skimmer
Also I like the bigger body size of the orca and I don't see the size as anything detrimental in my case. The body is 12" diameter and its about 32 high - lots of volume and height for bubble-protein contact.

I have heard about the seals giving on the external reeflo pumps but there is a lifetime warranty on these pumps and Reeflo assured me that the Gold reeflo Orca NW's have all the seals and fittings for 24/7/365 skimming. If anything goes, they will replace for free.

I know opinions of skimmers will vary from owner to owner but I have yet to find a dissatisfied owner of an Orca. None of them have every expressed any regret which was another big factor for me. It should be noted that none of them had their pumps' seal leak either but its only been a year since these skimmers came out so time will tell.

[sphelps]

If you compare the Orca 250 to the BK 250 which only uses one pump at 40W compared to the dart which I'm sorry will use more than 120W, it's a dart pump which is running at about 3 feet of head, check the pump flow charts. Mixing air in with the water will actually decrease the fluid density which means if anything the pump will spin faster and use more power. I would bet that pump runs at 150W. Either way that's three or more times the power. You also have to realize the orca started from people building ridiculously large skimmers and making a DIY needle wheel dart to run them, reeflo obviously saw a potential market and jumped on it, they haven't been building skimmers for very long and somehow drought they'll be doing it for much longer. Experience pays.

Also just the noise factor is enough to turn me off, I run dart pumps and I do like them as they are decently quiet but not even close to the red dragon. After all the dart is just a hot tub pump with different seals, plus when air get in the dart it's load, so I'm not sure how noisy that pump will be but I don't think it will be quiet not by my standards anyway.

I get the external thing but it's really not that difficult to build an external tank for the skimmer to sit in at least that way you don't have to worry about skimmer overflow. Also the BKs have super heavy lids to prevent this.

And I'm aware of the keyholes, and you'll eventually have to use pliers to loosen and tighten them to remove the collection cup. They will also eventually start sticking and even break off. You'll get tied of that real quick, especially with at least 10 of them. This is old technology, that's all I'm saying. No good quality skimmer uses these, it's an easy DIY method, that's it.

I don't own an orca for obvious reasons, I own a BK 250. I've been around for while to know what is good and what is bad, basically I don't need to eat crap to know what it tastes like.

In the end I'm just trying to help, I can see you mind is already made up and nothing will change it, most likely due to the fact you've already paid for the skimmer and yes it's a lot of money. I wouldn't admit it wasn't a good choice either.

Cheers, I hope it works out for you.

[Powertec]

Well i have a orca and the pump is using a baldor motor not the standard reeflo. On a watt meter I am getting 116 watts. And if the BK uses 80 watts like you said, and the reeflo is 150 watts, i may be no math professor but thats not even two times the power not three. So for anyone who would actually like to hear one and see the quality let me know, don't take the word from someone who has never seen one working. Go to reefcentral and read what others have had to say.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by sphelps

. I wouldn't admit it wasn't a good choice either.

Just a dumb comment. That's all I have to say, just dumb...

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

Just a dumb comment. That's all I have to say, just dumb...

Dumb but 100% true