Electrical question

[Delphinus]

Yes, it would be better to run a grounding probe. The GFCI will trip on a ground fault which in the absence of a grounding probe in the tank means it pretty much means it can only shut off if water gets onto a plug (ie., thus connecting one of the hot or neutral wires to ground -> thus "ground fault" -> thus tripping GFCI).

Without a ground probe in the tank, a submerged electrical device may have a leakage but without a path to ground the electric potential has nowhere to go. Thus if you stick your hand in the tank and say, your foot or something connects to ground (not the "ground" as in "floor" but I mean "ground" as in "somewhere for the current to go to") then you become the ground, thus getting zapped and bypassing the GFCI. Whereas a ground probe would be a better ground than you, and thus the electrical current would go there instead.

At least that's how I understand it.

[sphelps]

I really don't like to get into this kind of discussion as everyone always seems to have various opinions and comments and no conclusion in ever resolved.

However to contradict myself I would first off never use a ground probe. Ground probes create current from stray voltage, once you have current you have danger. Saying that you're safe because the ground probe is always a better ground than yourself is false, if you come between the voltage source and ground probe you could be in a lot of trouble, much more than if the ground probe wasn't there. Secondly almost all electrical components are going to create a small amount of stray voltage, however this is harmless and will not trigger a GFI. Add a ground probe and now you've given all those components potential, meaning they have somewhere to send that voltage and sometimes will send more because of it. This results in a loss of current which can trigger a GFI. Some say great, then I'll know when something is wrong. But what happens when it triggers on that long weekend when you're out of town??

Basically argue all you want but you really shouldn't use both a grounding probe and a GFCI together. It's unnecessary and they can interfere with each other. GFCIs are designed to trigger the second current is lost, it will trigger before you're zapped, you do not need a ground probe.

[Delphinus]

I didn't think I was arguing. Not sure where you think I was, not my intent at all.

If it's better to run without probes then so be it. I gave my reasoning and the disclaimer that this was how I understood it - if the reasoning is faulty then I appreciate the gesture of being corrected. So what you're saying is a "ground fault" is an unbalance of hot and neutral? Ie., it doesn't mean there's current on the ground wire?

One point though, I would rather lose a tank on a long weekend than my life. **If** it really came down to that. But it's comforting to note that the absence of a ground probe doesn't mean you're at risk.

I just don't like being electrocuted is all.

Peace?

[Monti-Man]

I am an electrical engineer and I will tell you that a ground probe is neccessary, that is why it is built in to everything from house to idustrial sites as syncrude.
You are always better having one

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Monti-Man

I am an electrical engineer and I will tell you that a ground probe is neccessary, that is why it is built in to everything from house to idustrial sites as syncrude.
You are always better having one

Though some that is true, I fail to see how the ground probe in your house relates to ones in question. All house grounds are connected directly to appliances, they are not located on one side of the house, isolated so when a short occurs it has to travel through the air towards the isolated pole. All your aquariums electrical components are already grounded like every house hold item. You'll have to go more into detail than I'm an engineer and that's how it is.

[Monti-Man]

I am not here to debate, but for safety sake use the gorund rod or plate or whatever. If you want an explanation give me your email and i will send you the proof, also the CEC code of practice in regards to this question also the CSA position on GfCI. I am not here to debate on this thread as you seem to be, take my advice or don't, but i would make sure your are using one.

[sphelps]

If you have "proof" relating to why people should use a ground probe in there aquarium I'm sure many people would appreciate you posting it here. I still don't see how all these codes you're referring to relate to aquariums.

I'm sorry if you feel I'm trying to "debate" this topic but when I give an opinion relating to such a serious topic I just feel it's a good to give reasoning. Call it what you want but how can you expect people to take you seriously if you can't give them explanation?

Article published by that Georgia Tech professor

[Black Phantom]

By code you have to have a GFCI in your bathroom in case you drop your hair dryer into the sink full of water. Or reach into the water when holding your hair dryer.
Obviously there is no ground probe in your sink. Isn't it the same thing with your aquarium?
I'm really in the dark here and just don't want to find myself floating over my lifeless body on my way to who knows where

Hopefully up

[spreerider]

your sink should be grounded if its metal and it its not it wont matter as it wont conduct anyways.

A GFCI works by measuring the current entering (hot) and leaving (the identified conductor commenly called neutral) you can have a ground fault and not have a gfci trip under the right circumstances but a solid connected ground is not necessary for a GFCI to trip as the current in a fault without solid ground could still make it to ground via a person or object.
i use a GFCI but no ground probe.
BTW most aquarium products are not grounded they are double insulated you can tell because none of them have a 3rd prong on the cord, the only thing that usually is grounded is the light as some require a proper ground to startup lights, and often have exposed metal on the fixture that needs to be grounded as per CEC and CUL.

[Monti-Man]

The purpose for using a ground rod is to diminish potential difference. For example if a heater leaks or fails, there will be a potential difference bewteen the piece of equipment and ground. When using the grounding rods or plates supplied by the supply ( the ground rods at the power supply to the house or to the local utility transformer) it is often located far enough away from the tank. This is the leakage that we feel, If we use a grounding probe at the tank we diminsh the effect of the leakage, the effect diminishes or increases with distance.


This is as simple as I can state it. If you don't want to use one don't This is just my opinion, with years of designing electrical distribution, from everything from watertreatment plants to multifamily dwelling.

You might get away with it once or maybe a thousand times, but I am of the belief that price might be to high to take that chance. The rest I leave up to you.