If you could - re: circulation

[sphelps]

Well, I look at it as a cheaper option. To me I see a closed loop using a Dart pump and 4-Way OM costing around $600-700 plus you have to consider plumbing and drilling costs which can make a total around $1000.
You can get a tunze kit with 2 pumps and controller for the same price but the 4 way OM provides 4 points of flow origin where as the tunze kit only 2. So really you need two tunze kits which costs double. So closed loops are GENERALLY cheaper for larger tanks.

Although some would argue you get way more flow from all those tunzes, try running a Dart at zero head next to a tunze and tell me which is greater. In addition the fact that you can use nozzles on a closed loop also creates high velocity streams which travel further and you with multiple nozzles pointed at multiple areas of the tank you eliminate more dead space.

[Delphinus]

Oh, I don't doubt you get wicked flow out of a closed loop using a Dart pump.

But the flip side is, at 0' of head the Dart is pushing out 3600gpm and consuming 180watts to do so.

A single Tunze 6101 is capable of pushing 3000gph and consumes 36w. So you can have 5 Tunzes before you have the same electrical draw as the Dart.

Of course the flip side is that 5 Tunzes will set you back $1500. Unless you find them used or something like that.

But a more realistic setup is maybe 2 or 3. So let's say 3 Tunzes versus 1 Dart.

Dart: $240
OM-4way: Holy crap, $390?? For real? (Based on this page here: http://www.oceansmotions.com/store/p...f071a68a786482 )
180W @ 24hours/day @ $.14/kWh (based on my last month's utility bill once all the extra surcharges and crap are all added in) - $18ish per month

Tunzes: TS24 kit, ... Holy crap again, $1000? Man have the prices on stuff gone up! I paid $800 for mine!!!!
Extra 6101: $435
36W * 3 @ 24 hours/day = $11ish per month

So over a 5 year period (assuming flatline power rates, haha, as if ), total cost of ownership is in the ballpark of:
Dart - $1710
Tunze - $2060

Far out, I just completely deflated my argument. Pop! Psssshhhhhhhhhhhhewwwwwww!! (sound of balloon deflating)

I .. uh, I had no idea the cost on these things had gone up so much. That's just crazy! I think I paid $300 per my two Tunzes (J&L Boxing Day sales one year apart) and $200 for the multicontroller. The current pricing on them is out of this world!

[fkshiu]

Don't forget to add the $300 worth of plumbing/drilling and chiropractor sessions (for the twisting and bending you'll need to do installing all that stuff) to the CL install. This pretty much makes it a wash.

I priced the two options out myself when I was building my tank and went the Tunze route mainly because of the greater flexibility provided by the Multicontroller over the OM - night mode/feed mode/surging/pulsing/etc. versus switching back & forth.

[sphelps]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

Oh, I don't doubt you get wicked flow out of a closed loop using a Dart pump.

But the flip side is, at 0' of head the Dart is pushing out 3600gpm and consuming 180watts to do so.

A single Tunze 6101 is capable of pushing 3000gph and consumes 36w. So you can have 5 Tunzes before you have the same electrical draw as the Dart.

All I know is that power equals pressure times flow so I don't buy tunze's 3000gph rating at 36W. It's kind of like the whole emulator thing which claims to produce 3 times more flow. That's kind of what I meant by put the two side by side and feel the difference.

All things aside, the best is always in combinations. Go with a 4 way closed loop and a tunze wave box and you'll be good.

[danny zubot]

All things aside, the best is always in combinations. Go with a 4 way closed loop and a tunze wave box and you'll be good.

I have to agree with that one. I have a CL using a Dart with 6 nozels and it's still not enough flow for my 110 gallon cube. I'm debating putting in a wave box just for that extra umpf. Of course I've not factored in all of the monthly exprenses like Tony has, mainly because I'm only interested in getting my tank healthy. But ya, CL are just as expensive to setup as say a Tunze wave system.