No water changes

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Myka

because they often figure that doing 75% waterchanges once every 6 months is the same as doing weekly 10%. Newbies shouldn't be given some information...

actualy it would be just under 2 months not 6 but interesting you bring this up as there is an old debate from about 4 or more years ago on wether leage or small waterchanges are better. then an article came out that showed the dilution effect of both small and large over time. what it boiled down to is small ones will never get rid of someting and actualy did pourly compared to 60 or 80% (can't remember exactly what they compared it againsts off hand)

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Myka

I find it best to steer newbies away from large waterchanges for many reasons. One being that they aren't usually very good at matching water params,

this is the basis for reef keeping, if they arn't very good then they should be practicing befor they even start or not start at all. after all it isn't rocket science and if retailers would take the proper time to show them how to do the measurments and what equipment they realy need instead of what would make them the most money they would be better off.

Steve

[digital-audiophile]

I'm running zeo now so I am commited to weekly water changes, although small ones.

[mark]

Originally Posted by Myka

I find it best to steer newbies away from large waterchanges for many reasons. One being that they aren't usually very good at matching water params, and two because they often figure that doing 75% waterchanges once every 6 months is the same as doing weekly 10%. Newbies shouldn't be given some information...

We're all here to learn and all newbies to point, post your experiences.

[Aquattro]

I run an SPS tank, I've been reasonably successful over the years. I schedule a 20g water change every two weeks. This means every 10 weeks I need to spend $50 on salt. That is a requisite cost of the hobby. My corals grow at stupidly fast rates, my longest lived fish was 9 years old, and everything does well in my tank. I don't supplement magnesium, I don't use zeovit, I add nothing that doesn't come from my Ca reactor or the water change.
As it's pointed out, the water change is at the very least some "fresh air" for the inhabitants. I cannot understand for the life of me why anyone would not want to do water changes. Is the 30 minutes twice a month too much time invested? $200/year in salt too much money? Or we think that fish prefer to swim in their own waste over fresh water? I don't get it. Kinda like not washing your underwear between wearings, IMO

[Doug]

Originally Posted by reef_raf

I run an SPS tank, I've been reasonably successful over the years. I schedule a 20g water change every two weeks. This means every 10 weeks I need to spend $50 on salt. That is a requisite cost of the hobby. My corals grow at stupidly fast rates, my longest lived fish was 9 years old, and everything does well in my tank. I don't supplement magnesium, I don't use zeovit, I add nothing that doesn't come from my Ca reactor or the water change.
As it's pointed out, the water change is at the very least some "fresh air" for the inhabitants. I cannot understand for the life of me why anyone would not want to do water changes. Is the 30 minutes twice a month too much time invested? $200/year in salt too much money? Or we think that fish prefer to swim in their own waste over fresh water? I don't get it. Kinda like not washing your underwear between wearings, IMO

Tell us how you really feel Brad. I could not agree more with your entire post.

[sumpfinfishe]

Well said there Brad

IMO water changes are a must too, I had a fully stocked reef tank for over ten years and not that I am boasting or anything but the reef was very successful. I owe most of that success to two things one being water changes and two education. The hobby of reef keeping IS rocket science, and not a plug and play venture. Spending hundreds of hours reading various books and articles and talking with fellow hobbyist on boards and in person was a major reason I believe my tank did so well. The water changes were the second ingredient to my success, I think in just under 11 years I could count on one hand how many month water changes I had missed. I never had to add supplements because of this until the last two years until I made the switch to sps corals, this is when I had to dose calcium as the amount of corals I had effected the balance of the system even with my regular water changes, I could not retain the calcium levels within the system. During the last year while the tank was running, my interest and focuses changed which led to less water changes and simply less attention with the tank, this started to cause problems such as algae troubles and fish and coral deaths.
Now after a year off I have set up a small fowlr tank which is doing really well, which I can say water changes and knowledge are the two main factors for things doing so well.
Finally, if a natural reef gets flushed with thousands of gallons of water every second of the day and night, I believe we owe it to the animals that we keep in our systems to provide them with a clean and stable environment as best as we can

[Myka]

Originally Posted by reef_raf

I run an SPS tank, I've been reasonably successful over the years. I schedule a 20g water change every two weeks. This means every 10 weeks I need to spend $50 on salt. That is a requisite cost of the hobby. My corals grow at stupidly fast rates, my longest lived fish was 9 years old, and everything does well in my tank. I don't supplement magnesium, I don't use zeovit, I add nothing that doesn't come from my Ca reactor or the water change.
As it's pointed out, the water change is at the very least some "fresh air" for the inhabitants. I cannot understand for the life of me why anyone would not want to do water changes. Is the 30 minutes twice a month too much time invested? $200/year in salt too much money? Or we think that fish prefer to swim in their own waste over fresh water? I don't get it. Kinda like not washing your underwear between wearings, IMO

Good post. I don't understand the no waterchange thing either. Laziness is the culprit most likely I think.

I don't supplement magnesium either, but I do test for it. IO keeps my magnesium at 1350-1360 ppm.

Originally Posted by sumpfinfishe

IMO water changes are a must too, I had a fully stocked reef tank for over ten years and not that I am boasting or anything but the reef was very successful. I owe most of that success to two things one being water changes and two education. The hobby of reef keeping IS rocket science, and not a plug and play venture. Spending hundreds of hours reading various books and articles and talking with fellow hobbyist on boards and in person was a major reason I believe my tank did so well. The water changes were the second ingredient to my success, I think in just under 11 years I could count on one hand how many month water changes I had missed. I never had to add supplements because of this until the last two years until I made the switch to sps corals, this is when I had to dose calcium as the amount of corals I had effected the balance of the system even with my regular water changes, I could not retain the calcium levels within the system. During the last year while the tank was running, my interest and focuses changed which led to less water changes and simply less attention with the tank, this started to cause problems such as algae troubles and fish and coral deaths.
Now after a year off I have set up a small fowlr tank which is doing really well, which I can say water changes and knowledge are the two main factors for things doing so well.
Finally, if a natural reef gets flushed with thousands of gallons of water every second of the day and night, I believe we owe it to the animals that we keep in our systems to provide them with a clean and stable environment as best as we can

Another excellent post.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by reef_raf

I don't supplement magnesium, I

ah, but you do.. your Ca reactor adds Mg.

anyways I don't think anyone is saying they are not necessary, just that they may not be necessary as often as some people think. I know you try for two week intervals but how often do you actually make that schedule. I try for 1 month intervals and I make it about 30 to 50% of the time. On my fresh water tanks I do an 80% change once a month but now that I have some new babies in there I will have to skip it this month till they are a little bigger.

are they necessary, yes, but depending on the equipment you have they may only be necessary every second month. as for money, not an issue, heck people spend more than that on corals in a week.

as for trace elements.... does synthetic salt contain all the trace elements we need? I don't know.

and no it is not rocket science. water maintenance is simply a matter of knowing how to do a test and reading instructions to come to the results. you do not have to pick formulas to work out ionic equations, you don't need a degree. does taking a chem class in school help, ya, but remembering that class is even better it is all simplified so there is not much thinking on our parts, do we read a tone of books.. yes but this is for our personal knowledge and for tips and tricks, most books are nothing more than some ones method that worked for them and for every book that shows one way there are others that say a different way, so by reading these books we are doing nothing more than deciding which way fits our needs.

Steve

[Telford]

Here's the simple question then...other than temperature, salinity, de-chlorination and taking out ammonia. Are there any other tricks, tips, neccessities when doing a water change?