Pet Store Supports Puppy Mills

[EmilyB]

Yes, very well said Brad. Backyards have nothing to do with the term.

I would extend my own personal definition of puppy mills to include breeders who produce inventory to stock pet stores.

And I honestly can't come to terms with a pet store profiting from rescue animals. Is the option there to adopt directly from the rescue org?

The head office of the store said the dog would be moved to better housing if required.

So we all hope things go well for her.

Happy tails to you all. Or no tails, whatever...

[Ephraim]

"And I honestly can't come to terms with a pet store profiting from rescue animals. Is the option there to adopt directly from the rescue org?"

How do they profit from this? Other than selling associated product.

[wolf_bluejay]

Years ago me and my wife bred chihuahua's. This was never done for the sake of a buck... The first few batches did go to a pet store. And much to my surprise, they would not take them without an "inspection". They shop owner came out to the house, met the dogs and looked at what we had for the pups. As well, he was very clear that they would not take the dogs until 10 weeks (not that we wanted them to go sooner).

The only reason we stopped going through the pet store was the fact that the pet store was not to particular on who they would SELL them to. The last 2 batches we sold ourselves so we could screen the potential buyers. To this day (8 years later) we have most of those that bought stay in contact.

These dogs were bred not for the money, but becuase raising little pups can be rewarding. And most stores WILL NOT BUY FROM MILLS. Usually if word gets around that they sell anything from a puppy mill, there business is over. It is just not worth it for a store to loose most of it's business to dave a few hundred bucks. Think about the way you buy fish, do you see any stores wanting to buy cyanide caught fish?


All I am getting at, is that the stores are mostly quite good, and most breeders do it because the love doing it. I hate to say it, but most of the problems out there are from irresponsible BUYERS. We turned away 3 times as many people as we actually sold to. Far too many people see a cute puppy, buy it, and then are unable to correctly care for it.
I don't blame the stores, or the breeders. How many times have there been complaints about some store selling a fish that would not work in someone's tank, and everyone blames the store. What about the guy buying the fish without doing a little research FIRST. Same goes for dogs. I have never seen a store keep a huge dog in a pen for any length of time, but yet I have a 150 lbs dog living next door to me in a yard that is 15' X 20' and never let out.
Let's put some blame where it belongs, there is a reason that all of these "rescue" groups exist in the first place. And they rarely have to "rescue" from a pet store.

[Ephraim]

Well wolf, according to Emily, you are a puppy mill. Congrats

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Ephraim

Well wolf, according to Emily, you are a puppy mill. Congrats

I'm pretty sure that after 6 pages of this, you STILL haven't read all the words. Please stop putting words in other people's mouths. I've just read all the posts again, and nowhere does EmilyB say that wolf is a puppy mill.

IMO Wolf is, or was at that time, an inexperienced hobbyist breeder that has since determined that selling pups to the pet store is not a great idea. Whether he does any genetic screening isn't mentioned, or if this is required with these dogs. In time, he may end up being a reputable breeder. Or may not. Time determines this.
Until then, stop telling people what YOU think EmilyB is thinking. So far you're wrong in most instances. And I know Emily, if she wants to say something about wolf, she'll do it herself!

[Ephraim]

Actually she did infer that by saying "I would extend my own personal definition of puppy mills to include breeders who produce inventory to stock pet stores."

Since Wolf bred puppies that went to a pet store, that would make them a puppy mill operator by Emily's logic. No?

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Ephraim

Actually she did infer that by saying "I would extend my own personal definition of puppy mills to include breeders who produce inventory to stock pet stores."

Since Wolf bred puppies that went to a pet store, that would make them a puppy mill operator by Emily's logic. No?

No, it would not. Wolf is not in the business of producing inventory for pet stores. He did it once, and realized that it wasn't a good idea for the benefit of his pups and did not do it again. He made a mistake. He learned from it.

[Ephraim]

Also Reef Raf, i noticed you used the phrase "reputable breeder" in your last post. Saying that Wolf may end up being a reputable breeder. According to you this is not possible. Earlier, i tried to get you to clarify your views on the phrase "reputable breeder" by saying....

"So reef_raf, by your rational, no matter the caliber of a dog breeder and the amount of care the put into producing healthy, happy puppies conforming to breed standards, if they sold thier litter to a pet store they would cease to be a reputable breeder? This one feature will erase all other indications of a good reputation?"

You replied to this by saying, "Yes, exactly. Now you're getting my point. Good breeders do not sell to pet shops, they just don't."

So how could Wolf ever become a repuatable breeder having sold his dogs to a Pet Store? You seemed fairly absolute in your statement. I am confused, I do read the posts and you don't seem to make much sense.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Ephraim

I am confused,.

And there is the problem. Now, I said a reputable breeder does not sell to pet stores. Wolf sold to pet stores, and that, IMO, disqualifies him as a reputable breeder. He has since stopped doing that. Now my last phrase was that in time, he may or may not become a reputable breeder. If he continues breeding, and gains a good reputation, he could become a reputable breeder. And he no longer sells to pet stores, which meets one of the criteria. While he did sell, then no, he did not meet my definition of "reputable". That can change.
Now please stop trying to twist all of this for the sake of arguing.

[wolf_bluejay]

Well, according to most "certified" beeders I was a puppy mill. There seems to be a lot of resentment between "backyard" breeders and CKC breeders.
But, the last time I was at a CKC breeder, they had multiple dogs, and did breed the dogs for the MONEY. However I have also seen a real "puppy mill". There were 10 dogs being bred and cross bred. the puppy's we fed the minimal amount of food to keep them alive, ya know, to cut costs down.

Outside of papers, what is all that different between puppy mills and registered breeders --- intent and love for the animals. The puppies we bred always had enough food and attention that they were not aggressive.
The mother of our pups did come "rescued" from a mill. She always fought over food (when there is not enough, dogs will fight over it).

The only reason we stopped selling to the pet store is that with Chihuahua's there is quite a selection of owners to pick from (one has a little helmet and leather jacket to ride on her Harley with her).

There was responsible genetic/family tree selection involved with breeding, almost all the owners we sold to are aware of who in this city are "family" and who not to breed with. However, we routinely run into people that ask to breed with the male that we had (passed away now), without asking about family history. They even seem to get upset when we tell them that they really should not breed bother and sister together.

We bred because raising puppies is an enjoyable hobby, after 5 batches the mother "retired".

With all that said, once you have actually SEEN a puppy mill you will be much more careful about what you call one. They are a disturbing sight, and yes there is places that have stacks of cages with dogs that are allowed out only to breed, and the food is in short supply. Compared to this, I would NEVER call your average backyard breeder a puppy mill.

BTW, usually puppy mills will bring the dogs away from "home" to show them, because if you see where they are raised, not only would you not buy from them, but call the SPCA as well. Always ask to see the dogs and the parents as well when buying a dog.

And "certified" breeders calling backyard breeders "puppy mills" is just propaganda to keep their prices and profit up. How is that intent any different than the puppy mills other than a piece of paper.

The bottom line is that puppy mills are in fact rare. Stores will not by from them, most people will not either without some scam (having the dogs at a different house to show, bringing the dogs to you, etc.) The way to stop them is pretty much what we all do -- stop buying from them.
And the main point I was trying to make is that OWNERS sometimes treat their pets no better than the mills. That is why we stopped selling to the stores. Not because the stores we behaving badly, but because they really are unable to "screen" those that buy.