Heartbreak hotel

[Delphinus]

FWIW this coral pictured is in an isolated tank now (the pictures were taken a day after it was moved into a 20g - the only thing it shares the tank with are an abalone, some cowries and the patch of zoos you see - which I threw in the tank a couple of weeks ago as a sort of canary to let me know if it's cycled or not). It might be too late though.

I actually gave up on the idea of ever putting SPS into my 75g. This coral was put into a separate system, which is why the same symptoms really surprised me. I was really hoping for a different outcome. Let's face it, my ritteri tank is actually quite void of diversity. 3 fish, 2 clams (well, 4, 2 are being babysat), and then some GSP that hitchhiked on a rock one of the clams is attached to.

But, I recently moved a Platygyra out of the 75g into the 115g because it was receding in the 75g, in the hopes to stem that loss. And there are plenty of other things that I do (ie. use the same turkey baster to feed), that for a pathogen would make for a convenient pathway to cross-contaminate the tanks. I know I'm reaching on this, but I do really wonder if there's something to this.

"Fail" is such a strong term BTW. I don't know if I consider my tanks as completely failed even if they can't support SPS. There are plenty of other things about them that aren't all doom and gloom. There's just.... "room for improvement" shall we say. Ok, no, I guess they're partially failed. Sigh. I did call this thread "heartbreak" for a reason.

[marie]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

"Fail" is such a strong term BTW. I don't know if I consider my tanks as completely failed even if they can't support SPS. There are plenty of other things about them that aren't all doom and gloom. There's just.... "room for improvement" shall we say. Ok, no, I guess they're partially failed. Sigh. I did call this thread "heartbreak" for a reason.

Your right it is a stong term and I only use it to describe what some people strive for and never seem to attain, a totm sps dominant tank.

I personally am not too impressed with sps and the only reason my 175g has them is because they are the only things that can tolerate an angel nipping at them and still look colourful.

If I had my way the tank would be full of lps, clams and zoas. Even softies have more going for them then these fuzzy sticks that I have

[Tom R]

I think I have been fighting this problem for years. I call my setup a mixed reef. Generally speaking it is just the progression for starting in salt water with softies then moving to LPS and finally saying I think I am ready to give these SPS corals a go.

I have not changed my rock or eliminated any of the original softies or SPS. I have sold and traded a number of them to make room for the SPS. I have also grown to like the look.

On the other hand I have continually fought with the SPS trying to get the results I see in so many of my friends fabulous SPS tanks. Their Colours, polyp extension and general well being are what I strive for yet never obtain. My tanks look good to most people, however I just do not get the results I am looking for. The madding thing is I have a 180G and 125G plumbed to the same sump. I am running the same water through both systems. The 180G is 5 years old and made up of my original salt water progression, it has a 1 1/2" sand base and one hugh Toad Stool. My 125G is 2 years old Bare Bottom and only the remnants of softies left on the rocks taken from the main tank. The SPS in it generally have full polyp extension. I have noticed that lately the polyp extension has become somewhat less but is still more than the 180G. At the same time many of the softy remanent have developed into colonies of cabbage and sinularia.

More and more I believe in chemical warfare as being the cause. It is either that or I am just not able to keep SPS. (some people are gardener and some are not)

[Jason McK]

Tony, So was this system just finished the cycle when the Milli was put in it?

[marie]

Originally Posted by Tom R

I think I have been fighting this problem for years. I call my setup a mixed reef. Generally speaking it is just the progression for starting in salt water with softies then moving to LPS and finally saying I think I am ready to give these SPS corals a go.

I have not changed my rock or eliminated any of the original softies or SPS. I have sold and traded a number of them to make room for the SPS. I have also grown to like the look.

On the other hand I have continually fought with the SPS trying to get the results I see in so many of my friends fabulous SPS tanks. Their Colours, polyp extension and general well being are what I strive for yet never obtain. My tanks look good to most people, however I just do not get the results I am looking for. The madding thing is I have a 180G and 125G plumbed to the same sump. I am running the same water through both systems. The 180G is 5 years old and made up of my original salt water progression, it has a 1 1/2" sand base and one hugh Toad Stool. My 125G is 2 years old Bare Bottom and only the remnants of softies left on the rocks taken from the main tank. The SPS in it generally have full polyp extension. I have noticed that lately the polyp extension has become somewhat less but is still more than the 180G. At the same time many of the softy remanent have developed into colonies of cabbage and sinularia.

More and more I believe in chemical warfare as being the cause. It is either that or I am just not able to keep SPS. (some people are gardener and some are not)

I'll make you a deal Tom, you can have all my corals and rock in exchange for new clean live rock .


Oh and you have to take my foxface and regal angel as well

[Tom R]

Originally Posted by marie

I'll make you a deal Tom, you can have all my corals and rock in exchange for new clean live rock .


Oh and you have to take my foxface and regal angel as well

Well Marie I will have to give this some thought. Is there a time limit on the offer?

Tom R

[Delphinus]

Hi Jason, I sure hope so. I've only been monitoring nitrates but there has been a reduction in the initial levels.

But to be clear, I only moved it in there a couple days ago. It was in a different system before that. You know how sometimes when you put your hand in the water, some SPS will slime up a little and you see it as sort of a stringy aura around the coral? This guy was doing that within 3 days of having been purchased, except without me putting my hands in the tank to trigger it. I was just hoping that it was just adjusting to something but it just seemed to worsen.

I moved it on the off chance that there was something in that tank that was bothering it, ie., doing nothing would have ensured that nothing changed. So although moving it into this new tank may be a mistake in and of itself, at least I felt I "was doing something about it."

Who knows, I mean, sometimes a coral just doesn't make the transition from ocean to captive life and this is nothing more than that. It's just that .. I've seen this progression now so often it's driving me crazy. Sometimes a piece will do well for months on end, and grow really well too, then suddenly, bam, it's number comes up. Others are like this and basically succumb more or less instantaneously. To be honest it's the ones that do well for a little while and then suddenly let go, that truly mystify me, more so than the ones that don't do well right off the bat (those ones just confirm to me that "Yep ... something is still not right here." The other ones will make me think I've turned the tide, then I'll go buy some more pieces, and then bam, the phenomenon returns and I'm left wondering why I didn't just learn my lesson and pass over the pieces in the store).

[Aquattro]

I have always had some zoos and GSP in with SPS, no issues. I have not mixed leathers and such though. I did have a time when things didn't do well, and I decided it was a vibrio outbreak and treated with antibiotics for that. The tank turned around after the treatment. This shows that sometimes it's something that can't be measured, so don't assume because the salifert kits say everything is good that it actually is. Lots of things affect a closed environment that are beyond our abilities to assess.

[mark]

For years been reading from people like Calfo and Fenner amongst others that mixed reef don't work long term because of allelopathy. Everything goes great for a few years then systems crash for no apparent reason.

Even just with different softies believe is a issue. For a while my tank was over run with Xenia to the point was throwing it out, got into a few different types of mushrooms and zoos and the Xenia just started to fade away. Around the same time had some Alk spikes so was thinking that, but alk been under control for quite some time. Seems once I started being steady on the carbon the Xenia at least is staying though not growing as before. If only had the will to stop changing things to narrow causes down.

[Tom R]

I see an opportunity. What we need is a CSI Reef Center. It would be interesting if we could take a sample of our water to get a full breakdown analysis of its make up or DNA. This may be available already but at what cost and where.

Tom R