Heartbreak hotel

Delphinus · #1 12-10-2007, 02:57 PM

The water thought occured to me too. But wouldn't RO/DI deal with chloramine if it was present?

Interesting about the borate/alkalinity connection .. hmmmm, will have to do some reading on that one. I'm right now using a bucket of Kent, was using IO before that. I've sort of bounced between IO and Kent over the years.

I have run carbon off and on. When I do run it, I have a small amount in a Phosban reactor and try to change it out every week or two. Also, same with the Phosban, I do have some on right now. I'm not sure how to tell when it's time to change it out. People say they change it out when their phosphate levels start going up, I have yet to detect an upward trend when I test PO4. I'm never sure if this means PO4 is OK, or just if my test methods are inadequate. Maybe it's time to buck up and pay a lab to do a chemical workup, if for no other reason than I can maybe express some confidence in the #'s I do come up with.

Der_Iron_Chef · #2 12-10-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delphinus

The water thought occured to me too. But wouldn't RO/DI deal with chloramine if it was present?

It should deal with it.....but how old are your filters? And what type of carbon filter do you have on there? I've read about the difference between catalytic carbon vs. granular activated carbon (the former being better for chloramine removal).

Just some thoughts....maybe it's your RO/DI filters?

marie · #3 12-10-2007, 04:22 PM

Are you sure its not allelopathy (sp?).With so many people having trouble growing sps I think chemical warfare is a bigger problem then people realize.
In my old 75g tank, I put a cabbage leather into the tank, within a few hours my turbinara closed up and stayed that way for 4 days no matter where in the tank I put it. After doing a large water change and running carbon with no success I removed the leather and the next morning the polyps were all back out on the cup coral. Too big of a coincidence to not blame the cabbage leather.

We tell beginners to start with the easy soft corals before moving on to sps. I wonder how many fail at having an sps tank of their dreams because of our advice. Maybe we should be telling them if they are planning on having an sps tank, to start with montipora.

Jason McK · #4 12-10-2007, 04:27 PM

That's exactly what I was thinking Marie.

I know when I started with SPS I still had a cabbage coral and a toadstool Leather. I could not get any SPS to survive in my tank. I finally removed and softies and boom success.

J

Delphinus · #5 12-10-2007, 04:40 PM

I can't be sure it's not allelopathy. But it's not quite that easy. I don't really keep a lot of softies. About a half dozen zoanthid colonies and some patches of GSP (hitchhiker's that came in on something). And for what it's worth, all were introduced well after this phenomenon began. Coming into this, I was an SPS guy. I only have non-SPS now because I grew tired of having an empty tank. Look at my tank picture from 2004 - the only softies are a patch of green zoanthids about 30-40 polyps in size. All those corals you see - all have since perished. Also there are many many tanks out there with both SPS and zoanthids, and for that matter, with more colonies and/or larger colonies than what I have.

I still haven't ruled out the anemones however. But ... it's not a slam dunk there either. Look at Cprowlers' tank, or Gary M.'s tank over at RC ... several others on RC that I correspond with have the same species but not this problem.

marie · #6 12-10-2007, 04:55 PM

Maybe try taking the acro out (if it's not too far gone) and puting it into a bucket of fresh mixed salt water with a powerhead, heater and a light of some kind on top

I don't think a person can measure success by how many mixed tanks work but by measuring how many mixed tanks fail

To be honest I don't think it could be anything else. You've measured for everything else and everything is where it should be. Therefore it is something you can't measure for and with all the other inhabitants being healthy and growing it isn't something toxic (to them)

untamed · #7 12-10-2007, 04:57 PM

I've had a large carpet anemone with my SPS for years and years. The anemone absolutely kills any SPS that it comes into direct contact with...but if there is no direct contact, there is no issue.

Tom R · #8 12-10-2007, 05:37 PM

I think I have been fighting this problem for years. I call my setup a mixed reef. Generally speaking it is just the progression for starting in salt water with softies then moving to LPS and finally saying I think I am ready to give these SPS corals a go.

I have not changed my rock or eliminated any of the original softies or SPS. I have sold and traded a number of them to make room for the SPS. I have also grown to like the look.

On the other hand I have continually fought with the SPS trying to get the results I see in so many of my friends fabulous SPS tanks. Their Colours, polyp extension and general well being are what I strive for yet never obtain. My tanks look good to most people, however I just do not get the results I am looking for. The madding thing is I have a 180G and 125G plumbed to the same sump. I am running the same water through both systems. The 180G is 5 years old and made up of my original salt water progression, it has a 1 1/2" sand base and one hugh Toad Stool. My 125G is 2 years old Bare Bottom and only the remnants of softies left on the rocks taken from the main tank. The SPS in it generally have full polyp extension. I have noticed that lately the polyp extension has become somewhat less but is still more than the 180G. At the same time many of the softy remanent have developed into colonies of cabbage and sinularia.

More and more I believe in chemical warfare as being the cause. It is either that or I am just not able to keep SPS. (some people are gardener and some are not)

Aquattro · #9 12-10-2007, 05:59 PM

I have always had some zoos and GSP in with SPS, no issues. I have not mixed leathers and such though. I did have a time when things didn't do well, and I decided it was a vibrio outbreak and treated with antibiotics for that. The tank turned around after the treatment. This shows that sometimes it's something that can't be measured, so don't assume because the salifert kits say everything is good that it actually is. Lots of things affect a closed environment that are beyond our abilities to assess.