My New 72"x20"x20" Tank Build

mark · #1 11-03-2007, 08:46 PM

For the overflow glass, just take the corner off where it goes to the tank silicone.

Not to open this all up again but pls clarify, going from your drawing (and being your primary drain is blue and other that's above the 'n' in return is the emergency).

-You'll have a single gate valve just below the bulkhead and above the Tee to control the flow to the primary Herbie drain.

-A ball valve (as course adjustment okay) on the right leg after the Tee over towards the ref to control how much actually splits into the refugium (other leg, goes left dumping unrestricted to sump).

-The emergency drain line dumps, if needed, directly to the sump.

GreenSpottedPuffer · #2 11-03-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark

For the overflow glass, just take the corner off where it goes to the tank silicone.

Not to open this all up again but pls clarify, going from your drawing (and being your primary drain is blue and other that's above the 'n' in return is the emergency).

-You'll have a single gate valve just below the bulkhead and above the Tee to control the flow to the primary Herbie drain.

-A ball valve (as course adjustment okay) on the right leg after the Tee over towards the ref to control how much actually splits into the refugium (other leg, goes left dumping unrestricted to sump).

-The emergency drain line dumps, if needed, directly to the sump.

Yes, thats exactly the plan.

The main drain will be adjusted by the gate valve to get the right flow to match the return pump. The return is split with a "T" though to direct some flow to the refugium on the right and the bulk of the flow to the sump on the left. The refugium flow is controlled by a ball valve. The return pump is being run externally right between the fuge and sump.

Now what Im struggling with is how to connect the refugium back to the sump. I originally was going to have a bulkhead near the top and let water gravity feed back to the sump through 2" plumbing but that would cause all kinds of bubbles that I do not want. So, Untamed had the idea of adding a second herbie to the connection between the fuge and sump which is a great idea BUT I think the fuge is not elevated enough and I don't see how the herbie would work there...but I am not sure of that. Next I thought I would keep the fuge and sump basically level with each other and connect them at the bottom with 2" bulkheads. Only problem here, is controlling flow between them and making sure the fuge is flowing into the sump properly.

Any help would be great because Im just sitting here staring at it with no idea right now how to proceed. I was hoping to finish the plumbing today.

untamed · #3 11-03-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

...

So, Untamed had the idea of adding a second herbie to the connection between the fuge and sump which is a great idea BUT I think the fuge is not elevated enough and I don't see how the herbie would work there...but I am not sure of that. Next I thought I would keep the fuge and sump basically level with each other and connect them at the bottom with 2" bulkheads. Only problem here, is controlling flow between them and making sure the fuge is flowing into the sump properly.

Any help would be great because Im just sitting here staring at it with no idea right now how to proceed. I was hoping to finish the plumbing today.

This works...Even if the fuge and sump are very similar heights, it is the difference in the water levels that powers the flow. For simplicity I have not drawn any baffles in the fuge. Without baffles, algae would get sucked out of the fuge. I'm sure you've got that part covered.

GreenSpottedPuffer · #4 11-03-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untamed

This works...Even if the fuge and sump are very similar heights, it is the difference in the water levels that powers the flow. For simplicity I have not drawn any baffles in the fuge. Without baffles, algae would get sucked out of the fuge. I'm sure you've got that part covered.

Yeah see that will not work then unless I really keep my sump water level really, really low. Basically, I could only have about 8" of water in it for this to work. I also cannot raise my fuge any higher. I think I need to figure something else out.

I am still working on the fuge baffles actually. Its hard to find something that will work as baffles in a rubbermaid container. So far I have nothing.

untamed · #5 11-03-2007, 10:30 PM

OK...assuming that is a pretty large pipe joining the two tanks....in your new drawings the fuge and sump are connected and will act as one single tank. The water level in each will always remain equal height. It doesn't matter where you put the return pump, the behaviour will be the same.

That will also enable the water to flow silently between them. (assuming both ends of the connection stay under waterline) I imagine that the end effect will be a very deep sump in order to keep adequate depth in the fuge.

Imagine reducing the size of pipe that runs between the two tanks. At some point, the pipe gets so small that the fuge needs to generate more head pressure to push through the water that is coming in. At that point, the fuge water level starts to rise in relation to the sump and you've created an non-adjustable Herbie.

If the pipe is too small to carry the incoming flow, even when the fuge is full (max head pressure), then the fuge overflows.

The bottom line is...if you put a gate valve on that line, you'll be able to adjust the water heights between the fuge and sump to whatever you want. If you want 10" in the sump, and 11" in the fuge...you can do it. Sump level is controlled by the total amount of water in the system...fuge level is controlled by the Herbie valve. Just make sure you have an emergency overflow on the fuge.

My answers are very long-winded. Why don't you just call me, or come visit? PM me if you are interested.

mark · #6 11-03-2007, 11:09 PM

Going from the photo, think about this.

Have the top of the sump and ref and about the same height. Inter connect with a large bulkhead as low as you can on the ref (no valve). Assuming the pump is on the far right of the sump with no baffles to the right, the water level in the ref will be the same as the pump compartment. Use a auto topoff to maintain.

Have no baffles in the ref other than a strainer on the bulkhead and maybe some eggcrating in front of the strainer. Negative is if the strainer gets blocked ref overflows so place a second interconnect at the top.

With the interconnect below no bubbles like Untamed said.

Not sure of your planned height in your in the pump compartment but adjust the ref height to max the volume in the ref tub.

GreenSpottedPuffer · #7 11-03-2007, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark

Going from the photo, think about this.

Have the top of the sump and ref and about the same height. Inter connect with a large bulkhead as low as you can on the ref (no valve). Assuming the pump is on the far right of the sump with no baffles to the right, the water level in the ref will be the same as the pump compartment. Use a auto topoff to maintain.

Have no baffles in the ref other than a strainer on the bulkhead and maybe some eggcrating in front of the strainer. Negative is if the strainer gets blocked ref overflows so place a second interconnect at the top.

With the interconnect below no bubbles like Untamed said.

Not sure of your planned height in your in the pump compartment but adjust the ref height to max the volume in the ref tub.

Yeah this is similar to what Untamed has suggested. I just got off the phone with him actually. I am going to have a gate valve though in the line between the fuge and sump to create a bit of a herbie effect. He was explaining to me how it doesnt matter if they are at the same height, having a gate valve will still allow me to keep the water height in the fuge higher than in the sump if I wanted or the other way around. Im not sure if that makes sense how I wrote it but I think I "get it" now.

So there will be a 2" line between the fuge and sump with a gate valve to control the water level in the fuge therefore also controlling how much water flows between the two. There will also be an emergency drain at the top of the fuge, just like a regular herbie.

I will post pics as soon as I get the plumbing father along.

But thank you to all you guys who have helped so far...I couldn't have even gotten this far without all your help!

GreenSpottedPuffer · #8 11-03-2007, 09:25 PM

Ok...Dont get too sick of me! Im really sorry but I have another idea that would work with the space I have. What about just having the return pump fed by a "T" that connects to both the fuge and sump. Like this:

http://www.canreef.com/photopost/sho...ze=big&cat=500

I do not know how to post pics from the user galleries here into a thread.