talking about T5 and SPS color !

[fishytime]

I saw this guys tank in a link on another forum. And ...WOW. Not to shabby for T5s eh?

[Snappy]

I think that part of the consideration here isn't the just lighting but the grade of the corals. From my understanding when companies are distributing sps worldwide generally the European market is sent the grade A, USA is sent grade A/B & Canada is sent what they can't sell elsewhere or grade C. Could be just a rumor but how often do you see sps that looks really good in the stores here?
Nice looking stuff on that link.

[Jason McK]

Well I certainly can't get those colours from my Frag tank.

I run MH in my display but as soon as I frag a coral and put it in my frag tank it looses all it's great colour.

[andresont]

Yeah, and also in the discription ,they feed them some color suplement too.

[Delphinus]

I think that to a point, there is some element of truth to the saying that Canada gets the leftovers.. but ... at the same time, I think a "Grade A" coral quickly becomes a "Grade B" or "Grade C" coral, depending on tank conditions and maintenance. And I think the reverse is true, that a "Grade B or C" coral can become a "Grade A" once again under the right care. So for us it becomes more about what "potential" a piece has, over what a piece "currently looks like." That's my take anyhow.

Here's another thought. There's just something I can't quite put my finger on when I look at those photos. It's like ... it's like, if I look at the individual coral closeup photos ... they look nice, but no nicer than some of the nice corals I've seen in fellow Canuck's tanks.

For example, take a look at this light blue acro, seen in the first link above:


Now look at this one (This is from a Canreefer's tank):


Is the German coral really nicer than the local coral? I don't think so. In fact, I think quite the opposite. The Canreefer's coral shows MUCH nicer in closeup. Plus the background is cleaner, ie. no bubbles and fuzz algae on the rocks.

But when I look at the German full-tank shot:


There's something subjective that makes the presentation almost overwhelming. Like I said, I can't quite put my finger on it, but it seems to have something to do with the density, and the placement of each coral so as to maximize the contrast between each piece, which gives the tank a much better "Oohhh wow" factor.

The one thing about this German tank that also sticks out, there are some larger colonies there and the colours are solid from top to bottom and there is no recession at the bottom. I for one would really like to know to manage that on a long-term basis. Anytime I had a large SPS colony, the top would shade out the bottom and there would be brownouts or outright recession at the bottoms. Caps were the worst for this and in fact I steer away from caps nowadays for this reason, I grew weary of constantly needing to trim them back every week. So is it a question of the right kind of flow, ie., something they've got that we don't, is it a question of moving your lights around so that there's no constantly-shaded-out-spots? Or do they rearrange their tanks often enough to keep up? Or is there a more sinister side to the story, ie., are they just replacing their corals as they lose that initial "pop" ? (I really hope that's not the case!!)

Or maybe they just have the dosing equivalent of steroid abuse - I know the colours are nice but if THAT were the case, I'd be very wary about a regimen like that - I'd hate to basically have to be treating my tanks as the equivalent of a full time job and I'd hate to train someone up to take care of my tank like that in the times I have to go away for work or vacation or whatever ..

At any rate though, I'm not sure that T5's are really the only difference here. Certainly T5's have a lot of potential however, there's no doubt about that.

[Nate]

Tony you speak of the bottom of the coral recession, which I used have using a standard 250 watt halide. I no longer experience this after using an 8 bulb tek t5 unit, becasue the light comes from different angles, not so much of a spotlight effect.

As for coral colours. I have never had as good of colour as I do now with T5's. and that is not to sum it all up to t5's either as there are many things I do differently now.

Also, to comment on how the tank just looks off...I notice this too with some European tanks, I think they would look more accurate if the prices were written on the glass infront of the corals as they all have that display case look to them.

Nate

[Delphinus]

Hmmm, interesting. The diffuse-ness of the light helps keep the bottoms viable. Ok, that's a major plus then for the T5's.

Curious, what are your thoughts about penetration of T5's? How tall is your tank? Would additional bulbs (ie. 8 vs. 6, or 10 vs. 8, etc.) compensate for taller tanks (e.g., a 30" tall tank).

I imagine one big plus of an 8 bulb unit is the ability to mix and match bulbs to get a wicked colour and spectral coverage.

What other things would you say you are doing that are contributing to your better colour these days?

[SuperFudge]

Originally Posted by Delphinus

There's something subjective that makes the presentation almost overwhelming. but it seems to have something to do with the density, and the placement of each coral so as to maximize the contrast between each piece, which gives the tank a much better "Oohhh wow" factor.

Without a doubt, In my opinion 100% accurate Tony.
When one breaks down each piece in comparison, there is no difference from one to the next.
But noone ever does that.
When it all boils down to it, selection and placment are what truly makes for a eye popping tank, because there is no question anymore that we all can maintain the required parameters given the dedication and devotion to it.
This holds true in Gardening and landscaping....its just Aquascaping.

Not to detract from the real topic of the viablility of t-5`s, I dont believe there should be any debate.. they all work pretty good when done right... but, there will always be some brownies in the bunch that wont color up under the best or under any of circumstances, that is their natural potential...why should we expect more than that ?

There is no question in my mind that we do infact recieve the same corals as anyone else, but we have to remember the size of the markets and hobbiest communities here, if we are at 10% of the size of the rest of the worlds hobbiest communities...well, that`ll be reflected in availability, as thats what our market supports.
Sure, Vendors/Retailers who buy more will get first dibs on premium grades and possibly exclusivity, but they are generally available to all...sad, but whoever spends the most money wins in this instance.

This attention payed to coral placement for contrast is huge...thats why youll see the mixed overlapping capricornus displays aswell as the mingled stag type garden looks so beautiful.
This remains equally important in selection of individual corals and pictures of them, many of the most sought after pieces are ones that contast greatly on a single coral, in polyp to base color differences...supermans, ultramans, hulks...... Most of the LE`s are included in this group.
Possibly those with some more experience with zoo`s, blasto`s, chalice`s,and shrooms could chime in here with thier thoughts.

The trick is to look at a coral thats been sitting in someones tank or store and see this potential...its hit and miss, and forsure youll hit a dud once and a while...but its part of the hobby for me, and i love it.



Marc.

[zulu_principle]

Marc

I was going to PM but thought the forum was a better spot for this.

When you say there should not be a debate, what do you mean ?

Im not really sure, i have seen both but not with the color from the european sites.

Is it more the additives or is the light better for sps ?

My bet is not but at the higher voltage does that make the lamp burn brighter ?

On the note of whats available, anything is available, the issue is purely supply and demand and the outcome is price.

There are a few that would pay, landed, sight unseen and no regard to condition on various species, but with the associated costs and risks not sure there are many (even those that heavily invested).

What do they say, "priceless".

[DJKoop]

Originally Posted by SuperFudge

There is no question in my mind that we do infact recieve the same corals as anyone else, but we have to remember the size of the markets and hobbiest communities here, if we are at 10% of the size of the rest of the worlds hobbiest communities...well, that`ll be reflected in availability, as thats what our market supports.
Sure, Vendors/Retailers who buy more will get first dibs on premium grades and possibly exclusivity, but they are generally available to all...sad, but whoever spends the most money wins in this instance.



Marc.

I agree here 100%. I had a discusion with a wholesale buyer who went to Bali to pick out an order. He said there were corals there that make anything we get here look pale and uncolored. The real good corals all go to Japan. They have the market there that is willing to pay 4 times what we pay here. Therefore they get first pick.