Closed loop advice

danny zubot · #1 04-20-2007, 10:59 PM

I'm out for the weekend but I will definately be back to discuss on Monday.

marie · #2 04-20-2007, 11:29 PM

Here's some reading for when you get back

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2003/short.htm

littlesilvermax · #3 04-21-2007, 12:59 AM

If I had that tank I would get an OM 4 -way and a dart pump.

That would arguably be an awesome combo!!!!!!!

Little pricey, but 5 years from now you would say it was the best thing you could have done.

BCOrchidGuy · #4 04-21-2007, 05:37 AM

Power consumption isn't usually a big concern, people figure electricity is cheap at 5.5 cents a kilowatt hour but it can add up quickly. That being said I don't know what kind of power some of these pumps use but for sake of argument lets say one uses or is rated at 100 watts. That means the pump has to run for 10 hours to use 1 Kilowatt hour or 5.5 cents worth of electricity which means if you run the pump 10 hours a day 7 days a week you are looking at 100 watts x 10 (hours) x 31 (days) x 5.5 (cents/hour) = $17 a month give or take a bit. That all being said, if the pump is rated at 1000watts um for sure I'd stay with powerheads. I just did a quick search and found a dart that's rated for 3600gph uses 160 watts a Tunze 6100 is rated at 45 watts so the difference would be with the Dart $27.28 per month vs $7.67 per month for a tunze 6100. I didn't check price difference between the power head and the pump but you'd be looking at $20 a month in electrical usage difference between the two.

Doug

Ruth · #5 04-21-2007, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCOrchidGuy

Power consumption isn't usually a big concern, people figure electricity is cheap at 5.5 cents a kilowatt hour but it can add up quickly. That being said I don't know what kind of power some of these pumps use but for sake of argument lets say one uses or is rated at 100 watts. That means the pump has to run for 10 hours to use 1 Kilowatt hour or 5.5 cents worth of electricity which means if you run the pump 10 hours a day 7 days a week you are looking at 100 watts x 10 (hours) x 31 (days) x 5.5 (cents/hour) = $17 a month give or take a bit. That all being said, if the pump is rated at 1000watts um for sure I'd stay with powerheads. I just did a quick search and found a dart that's rated for 3600gph uses 160 watts a Tunze 6100 is rated at 45 watts so the difference would be with the Dart $27.28 per month vs $7.67 per month for a tunze 6100. I didn't check price difference between the power head and the pump but you'd be looking at $20 a month in electrical usage difference between the two.

Doug

Not doubting the #'s just curious why you based it on running a pump 10 hrs a day. I don't know about anyone else but my pumps run 24/7.

I have both closed loops and tunzes on both of my larger tanks (230g and 190g) On the 190 I have the closed loop being powered by a sequence hammerhead - through an OM 4 way and then split into 8 returns. I also have 2 Tunze 6100's. On the 230g I have 2 Tunzes and the closed loop is more basic and is just 2 returns and powered by a Mag 24.
Personal preference for flow and the ability to move and direct flow is definately the Tunzes. If you decide that you want more flow along the bottom of the tank - simple - move the powerhead. Not quite so simple with a closed loop.

When/if I ever set up my 300g cube I am not going to drill for a closed loop at all - all tunzes. the bonus for me is
- I don't have to drill my tank
- less plumbing to try and figure out and hide (plumbing impared)
- no leaky bulkhead that I am currently dealing with on my 110g cube
- I can play around with flow and change it in the future as corals grow or I change the direction I want the tank to go in.

That's just my thoughts

BCOrchidGuy · #6 04-21-2007, 04:28 PM

Hey Ruth, I based it on 10 hours a day for two reasons, nice easy numbers, I like 10s and I like to have some of the flow shut down at night when the lights go off, still lots of flow but not as turbulent. I have two Seio 620s and an 820 in the cube, the 820 goes off with the lights at night.

Doug

Ruth · #7 04-21-2007, 04:33 PM

I like 10 too - it is a great # and has never done a single thing to me

I was just curious that was all.

Delphinus · #8 04-21-2007, 08:31 PM

5.5 cents per kwh -

I wish! Hydro is good for being cheap, you guys have it great.

A quick check of my last bill tells me I paid about 9 cents per kwh - and that's not including the "transmission charge", the "transmission account deferral rider" (I am not making this up), the "distribution charge", the "local access fee" and the "balancing pool allocation", oh wait, that last one looks like a small credit, never mind.

So yeah, I dunno, $20 per month doesn't sound so bad on its own, but in some cases it may be more than that. But assuming that it IS $20 per month, that's $240 per year. Suddenly those Tunzes don't look so bad to me, and then there's the advantages that Ruth listed (ie easy to change around if needed and so on).

I guess I shouldn't knock the CL idea totally though. They do have their advantages, espescially with the Calfo manifold idea.

littlesilvermax · #9 04-21-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCOrchidGuy

Power consumption isn't usually a big concern, people figure electricity is cheap at 5.5 cents a kilowatt hour but it can add up quickly. That being said I don't know what kind of power some of these pumps use but for sake of argument lets say one uses or is rated at 100 watts. That means the pump has to run for 10 hours to use 1 Kilowatt hour or 5.5 cents worth of electricity which means if you run the pump 10 hours a day 7 days a week you are looking at 100 watts x 10 (hours) x 31 (days) x 5.5 (cents/hour) = $17 a month give or take a bit. That all being said, if the pump is rated at 1000watts um for sure I'd stay with powerheads. I just did a quick search and found a dart that's rated for 3600gph uses 160 watts a Tunze 6100 is rated at 45 watts so the difference would be with the Dart $27.28 per month vs $7.67 per month for a tunze 6100. I didn't check price difference between the power head and the pump but you'd be looking at $20 a month in electrical usage difference between the two.

Doug

I actually made an electrical usage file:

http://www.members.shaw.ca/bkotrla3/...calculator.htm

I think your numbers are bit off, or a lot off!

5.5 cents /Kw
100 watt pump
24 hours per day

= $4.09 per month

A dart pump (160 watts or so) running 24 hrs a day would use $6.54 per month only on months with 31 days.

danny zubot · #10 04-23-2007, 04:21 PM

There are many good points made above, thanks to everyone.

I have considered getting Tunze's with controllers or some other type of wave maker. I like the idea of being able to move them where ever they need to be in the tank. Closed loops offer some very cool options for wavemakers though.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out what is best for the tank right now. Do I rip it down and drill the tank full of holes or do I spring for the tunze's and be done with it? Do I risk damaging the balance my tank is starting to find? I'm not sure, but that is why I need peoples opinions. With the exception of some hair algae the tank is finally starting to thrive again after moving a few months ago.

LSM your numbers from the calculator seem a little more realistic to me. I've heard that sequence pumps are quite reasonable in the efficiency so if I go the closed loop direction I'll most likley buy one.

Does anyone run a closed loop with SQWD's? How are they? I can't seem to justify spending OM 4 prices for a 65 gallon tank.

Can anyone suggest a reasonable Tunze setup for a 65 gallon tank? Nano's or streams etc?