Complex Setups: What gives?

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by Der_Iron_Chef

This has been something I've been thinking about for quite some time. It seems like, in general, you're legit as a saltwater aquarist *only* if you have certain lighting, certain skimmer(s), plumbing that would make Bob Villa's head spin, and a Starphire tank all-around. There's a certain amount of bravado and narcissism when it comes to equipment. Let's be honest: if you see words like Geisemann, Vortech, Tunze and/or Bubble King in someone's signature, you're probably more likely to listen to what they have to say (ie. take them more seriously). Fact of the matter is, it just takes lots of money to have these pieces.

Bottom line: you can have a brilliant reef aquarium with lower cost equipment. As Beverly said, it just takes a little (or a lot) more elbow grease. I think there are definite benefits to having sumps and refugiums and what-not, but to say that they're a "must" is inaccurate.

OK this post has been bugging me all day long - I guess cause I don't agree with it. I don't think that anyone has said that you need all the fancy equipment with the big price tags to have a successful reef and I believe that the variety of people on this board that run aquariums ranging from the fully automated - all the bells and whistles - to the super getto are all respected and their opinions are welcome.
A common theme of peoples advise to others that are having problems or simply asking questions boils down to
- research, research research
- ensure that you have good, balanced water quality
- ensure that you are providing the optimum environment to the critters you are keeping.
I don't recall anyone ever suggesting that you need a Bubble King skimmer, calcium reactor, MH lights, Tunze powerhead etc etc etc. to have a successful reef tank.
What has been offered up in the past is a recommendation to ensure - proper and adequete water flow, pristine water quality (however you choose to ensure that with a skimmer, water changes etc), and adequete light.
Sure there are people who have toys and yes some of them are expensive. It doesn't make them more knowledgeable to better reef keepers but it is their CHOICE to have those particular pieces of equipment.
I think you will get the self righteous on both ends of the specturm - those that beat their chests because they have all the bells and whistles - and those that beat their chests because they run low tech systems and spurn those that have all or some of the pricey equipment.
There are many ways to run a successful salt water aquarium and as long as you do your research, ask questions, and are humble enought to admit when you have made a mistake and take actions to correct it you will do fine in this hobby - with or without the gadgets - it's your choice.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Originally Posted by Ruth

OK this post has been bugging me all day long - I guess cause I don't agree with it. I don't think that anyone has said that you need all the fancy equipment with the big price tags to have a successful reef and I believe that the variety of people on this board that run aquariums ranging from the fully automated - all the bells and whistles - to the super getto are all respected and their opinions are welcome.
A common theme of peoples advise to others that are having problems or simply asking questions boils down to
- research, research research
- ensure that you have good, balanced water quality
- ensure that you are providing the optimum environment to the critters you are keeping.
I don't recall anyone ever suggesting that you need a Bubble King skimmer, calcium reactor, MH lights, Tunze powerhead etc etc etc. to have a successful reef tank.
What has been offered up in the past is a recommendation to ensure - proper and adequete water flow, pristine water quality (however you choose to ensure that with a skimmer, water changes etc), and adequete light.
Sure there are people who have toys and yes some of them are expensive. It doesn't make them more knowledgeable to better reef keepers but it is their CHOICE to have those particular pieces of equipment.
I think you will get the self righteous on both ends of the specturm - those that beat their chests because they have all the bells and whistles - and those that beat their chests because they run low tech systems and spurn those that have all or some of the pricey equipment.
There are many ways to run a successful salt water aquarium and as long as you do your research, ask questions, and are humble enought to admit when you have made a mistake and take actions to correct it you will do fine in this hobby - with or without the gadgets - it's your choice.

Ruth--

I'm sorry if my comment bothered you. It was not my intent to generalize, as my comment may have appeared to do. In my post, I said that there's a "certain amount" of bravado and narcissism. I hold true to this. Early into the hobby, I left a particular LFS in Calgary very discouraged and angry. The owner basically made me feel like an idiot because I didn't have two grand to spend on lighting and a skimmer. On the other end of the spectrum, the people on this forum have been encouraging and informative.

The point of my comment was to inform the newcomer (like myself) that the expensive gadgetry isn't necessary, even if someone will make you feel like an arse for the sake of a sale.

Again, I apologize if I've offended. I can admit to my mistakes, and perhaps I've made one here.

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by Der_Iron_Chef

Ruth--

I'm sorry if my comment bothered you. It was not my intent to generalize, as my comment may have appeared to do. In my post, I said that there's a "certain amount" of bravado and narcissism. I hold true to this. Early into the hobby, I left a particular LFS in Calgary very discouraged and angry. The owner basically made me feel like an idiot because I didn't have two grand to spend on lighting and a skimmer. On the other end of the spectrum, the people on this forum have been encouraging and informative.

The point of my comment was to inform the newcomer (like myself) that the expensive gadgetry isn't necessary, even if someone will make you feel like an arse for the sake of a sale.

Again, I apologize if I've offended. I can admit to my mistakes, and perhaps I've made one here.

No offense taken Drew - it was "buggin" me so I felt I had to respond. I think my point is that it is a personal choice - what you want to/can afford to do. There are so many ways to have a successful saltwater tank and what works for one person may not work for the next. Some stuff is basic, some is very complex. Some people enjoy and make the gadgets work for them - others prefer not to or can't afford to, use them.
So basically whatever floats your boat or blows you skirt up - go for it. Heck I was the one on here a few days ago crying because I lost a bunch of really nice fish - and this was from a tank with a lot of expensive gadgets on it - all because of a tripped breaker

[Myanth]

Thanks to Christy I think that I've got this figured.


New batch of eggs Jan 18, should be hatching evening of the 26.

Mike

[muck]

Originally Posted by Myanth

Thanks to Christy I think that I've got this figured.


Well maybe.

Make sure you use the url from the large picture Mike.
Otherwise you did it right.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Originally Posted by Ruth

No offense taken Drew - it was "buggin" me so I felt I had to respond. I think my point is that it is a personal choice - what you want to/can afford to do. There are so many ways to have a successful saltwater tank and what works for one person may not work for the next. Some stuff is basic, some is very complex. Some people enjoy and make the gadgets work for them - others prefer not to or can't afford to, use them.
So basically whatever floats your boat or blows you skirt up - go for it. Heck I was the one on here a few days ago crying because I lost a bunch of really nice fish - and this was from a tank with a lot of expensive gadgets on it - all because of a tripped breaker

Well, I agree with everything you've said! But you know what's frustrating for me? I don't want to pay lots of money for a crappy stand/canopy, but I have no DIY woodworking experience! I need a new stand to accomodate a new sump, etc. Hmmm. Maybe I'll try it out and be surprised by my mad skills.

[Delphinus]

You never know until you try!

And one other point, any stand you DIY is going to be so seriously overbuilt anyhow, compared to what you can usually buy. Look at a consumer stand, sometimes they're built out of melamine or MDF. Look at any DIY stand, and it will be 2x4's, 2x6's, cross-braced to the wazoo, you can park a CAR on most DIY stands I've seen and not worry about it one day giving out.

[Jaws]

I'll be the first one to chime in and say that buying the best equipment still doesn't ensure an excellent system. I've been in the hobby for almost three years now. I started out buying the best of the best, slowly accumulating it over time while I ran a 70G sytem with the HOB skimmer and the maxijets to gain experience. I've had my 180G tank set up for a year now and I'll tell you, it was far from easy. Even after spending thousands and thousands of dollars on equipment it all came down to the amount of time I wanted to put in to it. Thankfully I'm addicted to the hobby and time and effort was just as much fun as it was frustration. There were hours and hours spent turkey basting rocks, pulling off buckets of hair algae, and cleaning equipment. Attention to detail is key in this hobby. I feel my system is reaching a point of stability finally and I can enjoy the hobby a little more while spending a little less time. Keep in mind that it does take about a year to establish an appropriate amount of bacteria and even nutrients to have a healthy system so patience is just as important.

With all that being said, it was an excellent learning experience to watch the system mature especially when I added new components to it and could observe the impact each one had on the tank. For example, it was unbelievable to me to see just how much of an impact flow had on my tank. I had about a 30X turnover in my tank for about six months with all kinds of algae problems. Now I have a 55X turnover and I haven't had a problem with algae since. Even with a 40X turnover the algae seemed to disappear. It was partnered with a lot of manual removal of algae as well but the flow pretty much stopped the algae from coming back. In the end, just like mostly everyone else mentioned, the more higher end equipment I added just allowed me to spend less time overpowering the larger problems and more time to spend on the smaller details that can make a system really thrive.