Thinking of setting up my first salt tank

[Ephraim]

Well i've decided that i will drop the money on some MH. I'm interested in the Coral Life hang on tank mounts w/ 150W 20K. What's better 20K or 14K?

http://www.esuweb.com/cardfile.asp?I...lationship=332

Anyone have experience with these? I ws thinking of maybe 3 spaced down the length of the tank. Also i was thinking of the fixtures that Marcingo mentions in the product review forum. I realize these will need a little bit more work on my part, is it worth it to save a few bucks?

Back to skimmers...The hole in the wall where i am putting the tank has a clearance of 3.5" on each side. So i would have the room for putting a slim skimmer on each end. Would this suffice?

On the topic of the sump, does anyone know anyone in the Calgary area that could drill holes for me(not Bow Valley)? Any idea on cost?

Do anyone have some good links for DIY dosing systems. I'm fine with daily dosing maually(i do it with my plant tanks), but I'd like to explore my options.

I'm so amazed at how helpful you all are! This forum rocks!

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Hey! I started into this hobby a few months ago, and it's definitely a huge learning curve. This website will teach you more than any book or LFS ever will!

One thing: I spent $400 on live rock, and since that time, I've seen members online here selling theirs for a fraction of the price! Already cured! *sigh* I think you should be patient in acquiring the live rock, because you will then have more money to spend on better lighting and a better skimmer (as everyone has advised already).

Two things I feel I want to add:

1) If you don't go with a sump, think about some auto top-off system. You're right about the crazy evaporation here in Calgary. Check out this site (http://www.melevsreef.com/plumbing/auto_topoff.html) for a seemingly easy DIY system.
2) Factor in the costs of things like: calcium, iodine, strontium, micro-plankton, etc.

Good luck! And remember...everyone has their own way of doing things, and you'll hear 10 different versions of the "best way"! Figure out what works for you and go with it. And let us know how it goes

[kwirky]

way to go on deciding on the sump

most glass shops can do it. call the glass guild up, they're pretty good people.

As for the coralife light, 150w MH would be a little dim for your tank. I have a 150W HQI bulb that I've hung over my 24" deep 120 gallon to see how it would look, for curiousity's sake, and it doesn't look bright enough to me. And that's a geisseman 13000k bulb. those coralife bulbs are not that great, I've heard. Albert at Gold's Aquariums has before and after pictures of when he took all the coralife bulbs out of the fixture on his main reef show tank. It's like night and day.

This is an excellent site for MH bulb research (requires Internet Explorer)
http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/

If you really want MH lighting, with the depth of your tank, I'd recommend 250W mh though. Like I said earlier however, your long and narrow tank would be much better lit with T5's compared to MH's. MH reflectors are tuned for 2'x2'ish areas, otherwise you'll be wasting 50% of your light in most cases. You would need 3 metal halides to light it, or 4 six foot bulbs of T5. Replacing the T5 bulbs would work out cheaper in the long run, even if you account for their 9 month life (compared to MH's lasting 12 months when run on electronic ballasts). Not to mention the power savings. 150W of T5 versus 750W of MH for similar light outputs .

check these out:


http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewIt...product=SL2413
you can get 4 of these. I'm sure Albert at Gold's can order them, because he deals in sunlight supply. It would cost you about $460 for the light system, and about $200 or less for the bulbs, i'm guestimating.

Your light spread would be MUCH better over your tank. Much better light output than three of those coralife fixtures for sure. just make sure you protect your frags initially with window screen on top of egg crate on the top of the tank to prevent them from bleaching. I bleached some of my own softy frags at the BOTTOM of the tank with my own T5 fixture.

Oh and if you properly ventilate your hood, you can get crazy PAR outputs from T5's. I'm probably going to be carving up my own T5 fixture this weekend to put in some computer fans. Read you get like 75% more output just from cooling it!

Originally Posted by Der_Iron_Chef

Hey! I started into this hobby a few months ago, and it's definitely a huge learning curve. This website will teach you more than any book or LFS ever will!

One thing: I spent $400 on live rock, and since that time, I've seen members online here selling theirs for a fraction of the price! Already cured! *sigh* I think you should be patient in acquiring the live rock, because you will then have more money to spend on better lighting and a better skimmer (as everyone has advised already).

agreed... I've spent way too much on my rock heh. I'm looking to get the last of my rock through the bargain finder or the buy/sell forum on here. I read of a dude who set up a 400 gallon tank and only paid like $1000 for all his rock because he got it bit by bit "used"

[Ephraim]

interesting, are you saying that a T5 has a higher/better out put that PCs? I didn't know that MHs only last 12 months, someone once told me they have an unlimited lifespan. I thought T5's were only good for 6 months, 9 months does make them more ecconmical. How about power consumption, how do t5's compare to MH? How about temp, i realize that T5 need to be cooled, but compared to MH how is it? Also, what would be the reccomended suspension height above the water for the T5's. And these T5's would be suitable for what corals (low/mid/high)?

Also what does PAR mean? I'm learning the abbrev. slowly but never seen that one yet...

[kwirky]

ok...

T5's need to be HO driven with a reflector for each bulb to make them worth while.

A T5 setup where you have 4 bulbs for every foot of tank (front to back) is VERY close to a setup where you have a 250W MH light for every 2'x2' area and much better than PC lighting.

For your tank, T5's would be a very economical choice because your tank is only 1 foot from front to back, thus requiring only 4 T5 bulbs. You'll have the fun task of sourcing out 7 foot T5 bulbs though haha. This would only draw 150W. MH lighting with a similar, or slightly higher output, would require 3 250W bulbs for a similar output.

Here's about bulb life:

MH bulbs don't last forever. HQI driven bulbs can sometimes last only 9 months because the bulbs are overdriven. magnetic (standard) ballasts or electronic ballasts allow the bulbs to last for 12 months. Remember, most of the reef tank MH bulbs emit is blue, and our eyes are most sensitive to red; our eyes can't notice the drastic drop in performance when a bulb reaches 12 months because we can't see the blue spectrum that well.

T5 bulbs when overdriven, or if you're keeping high demand SPS at 18" in the water or lower will require the T5 bulbs to be changed every 6 months. Otherwise you get 9 months out of them.

Now consider the bulb costs. 9 months for $200-250 in T5 bulbs. 9-12 months for $180-380 in MH bulbs (depending on brand you choose. economical XM or pricey geisseman). They can work out PRETTY close if you're using economical MH bulbs. Oh, IF you can get 7' T5 bulbs and a fixture/retro kit for them, it'll be VERY economical, since the price difference between 2, 3, 4 and 6 foot bulbs is very small.

Now for power costs. In your tank, T5's would benefit. Lighting the surface area of your tank would only require 150W of T5 lighting, while MH lighting would be around 750W! (3x250W, and even MORE if you're using HQI lighting). So if you were to compare the cost of replacing T5 bulbs to replacing economical (yet still quite good) XM metal halide bulbs, the power savings would make T5's the same in cost, if not better.

Also, the 150W power requirement makes a lighter load on your breaker, virtually eliminating the chance of having to beef up the power rail supplying your fish tank. It would suck to have to reset the breaker every time somone's vacuuming.

as for temperature, I think they're both the same. If the ambient (room) temperature isn't higher than what you'll be running the tank, a good fan or two can deal with any temperature problems. If you can find one, those 6" clip on fans work well. I couldn't find one, so I'm using a 110cfm (very high output) fan from radioscrap that's AC powered (no transformer needed).

What I was talking about, is there's a thread on reefcentral.com where Grim Reefer is reviewing an ATI branded T5 fixture which is JUST arriving to north america. It has INSANE light outputs because of it's superior reflectors, and it's properly cooled bulbs. The sunlight supply fixture uses 'passive" (or 'no') cooling.

The sunlight supply fixture had an output 160 or something (close to 250W mh lighting).
the ATI fixture had like 330!
somone put 3 computer fans on the top of their sunlight supply fixture, and it increased it's output to 250, making it much more intense than 250W lighting (the mod I'm going to try this weekend. I'm just slightly nervous because it'll void my warranty).

If you decide on T5's though, you'll probably have to retrofit them because of your tank length, and that means you get better control of your cooling.

hope that helped. You can swing in to Gold's aquariums when Albert's in. He knows a ton of info, and I usually turn to him for advice, and he can tell you what can and can't be ordered in Canada.

here are some links to reflectors and ballasts n stuff:
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/produc...s%3D%26pgi%3D3

http://www.sunlightsupply.com/produc...s%3D%26pgi%3D3

http://www.sunlightsupply.com/produc...s%3D%26pgi%3D3

http://www.sunlightsupply.com/produc...s%3D%26pgi%3D1
look at the price difference between the 5' and the 2' bulbs, above. that's why T5's can be economical on your system

[Ephraim]

wow, well you sold me on the T5 for sure. the power savings will really make it worth it. Now do the reflectors reflect alot of heat down making it safe to mount the reflector on wood, or would this be a fire hazard? And what would the minimum mounting height be? Would 4" be safe?

[kwirky]

I don't think they'll be a fire hazard. My own tank heated up because of the light hitting the rocks, causing the water to warm. MH lights can be a fire hazard because the bulbs burn so hot. I think the heat from T5's affecting a tank is from the intense light warming the rocks.

But if the reflectors are separate, they clip onto the bulb. It's the sockets that get mounted to your hood if it's not a retrofit system.

4" should be fine if you have good fans circulating the air in the hood. I run my own 6" away from the water, hung from the ceiling so I can get my arms under easily to do maintenance. I have the believe if daily maintenance is a bother, it won't be done daily

[Joe Reefer]

I have only saw one tank lit with t5s', I have used PC in the past. All I can say is you can't go wrong with good'ol metal halide, and if you buy e-ballasts your bulb choices are endless.....

[Dave C]

Originally Posted by kwirky

For your tank, T5's would be a very economical choice because your tank is only 1 foot from front to back, thus requiring only 4 T5 bulbs. You'll have the fun task of sourcing out 7 foot T5 bulbs though haha.

Did I miss something? I thought it was a 6' tank.

[Ephraim]

mustof been a typo on kwirky's part. It is a 6' tank, so 2 x 4 36" bulbs