What more could i do......(NEED HELP!!!)

[mooch28]

Originally Posted by FragFactory

Have all your snails/corals come from the same store?

Mike

Nope different stores. Ive even tried corals from different systems wich are running real well.

[mooch28]

Originally Posted by Renegade

just a thaught what are you adding / using maybe chemicals you are using are mixing causing an ill effect. ? Is your rock very pouris ?? Stick with it. I wish i had half the equipment you have, i unfortanitly cheaped out with i first got into the hobby but i never had alge or death problems but with corals that were a little more finicky. Now i'm in process of upgrading to new system.

All i add is C-balance (A/B Calcium and alkalinity solution) and some liquid vitamen and foods for inverts. Oh, and sometimes some MG, but only once per week at manufacteres instructions.

[mooch28]

Originally Posted by Beverly

I've read this thread from the beginning and can see no reason why corals and snails die on you.

However, I do have a few suggestions that might be of use generally speaking. If this was my 110g, I would:

- reaquascape to get rid of the "wall of rock". This would provide better flow throughout the whole tank.

- make sure you get good water surface movement to maximize air exchange between the tank and the air in the tankroom.

- make sure the room your tank is in gets fresh air. This will eliminate the possibility of high CO2 levels in your tank room and thus in your tank. High CO2 levels will often show up as low pH in the tank. You can test for CO2 levels in your tank room by taking a sample of tank water and aerate for 20 minutes with an air pump. Record pH before aeration and after. Then take another sample of tank water and aerate it outside for 20 minutes, recording before and after aeration pH. If there is a big difference between inside aeration pH and outside aeration pH, you don't have enough fresh air getting into your tankroom.

- add non-invasive macroalgae in either the sump or display tank to utilize excess nitrate and phosphate. The reason there is no nitrate/phosphate in your system is that the hair algae is using it up. If you had an excess of phosphate in your system, it would show up as cyanobacteria.

- reduce calcium to 400 ppm. Alk is fine at 9/10 dKH. Temp looks good, too. Also test for and adjust Mg to about 1325 ppm, though even if it is a bit low or high, it should not be the culprit in dead snails or corals.


BTW, I have had a number of low or high levels of the above mentioned Ca, Mg, alk, pH and have not had a problem with dying livestock. However, when chemistry and pH/CO2 levels finely tuned, I get better coral growth, better polyp extension and better coralline growth.

Do the pH/CO2 levels test and let us know what you discover on that front. It could be one of the bigger factors with your dead snails and corals.

Well the wall of rock, has a ton of openings, and if i look behind the rock i can see the water flowing quite well. I don't see many deadspots, and with 4850 GPH of flow in the tank now, i think i should be fine.

Water movement on the top is excellent, as i pointed two of my return spouts right onto the water surface, which get agetated a lot.

Tank has no lids, but eggcrate. Room is big (22 feet x 12 feet), and allways getting fresh air.

I added caulerpa macroalgae for hair algae in the sump a few days ago. That should help, and i think it has allready. As for Cyno, i was getting it for some time, and wondering why. Perhaps i did have phosphates in the system as you sugest. Well, with phosban and the macro algae, hopefully it will be reduced to a minimum.

Im wondering why your asking me to reduce my calcium??? Any reason for doing so??

As for live stock dieing, its only with some inverts like snails. Inverts like hermit crabs have been pefectly fine, which i find odd.


Thanks a ton for your help, and all you guys!!

[Beverly]

Originally Posted by mooch28

Im wondering why your asking me to reduce my calcium??? Any reason for doing so??

I used to be under the impression that the higher the Ca in my tanks (up to 450 ppm), the better it is for organisims that use it in the calcification process. However, according to this very complex chemistry article, The Chemical and Biochemical Mechanisms of Calcification, more is not better ....

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/apr2002/chem.htm

Here's a quote from near the end of the article. Read the whole article (a few times) to better understand the many biochemical processes at work in calcification....

Implications for Reefkeeping: Calcium Concentration

Reefkeeping hobby lore has it that boosting the calcium concentration above natural levels of 410 ppm does little to enhance calcification in most corals. That idea is supported by experiments on Stylophora pistillata where calcification becomes limited by calcium at levels below natural levels, but is not increased above about 360 ppm.4 The relationship between external calcium concentration and calcification rate displays exactly the behavior to be expected if an active transport process were limiting the calcification rate, and that this transport process is saturated with calcium at concentrations above 360 ppm.

Using some of the information provided in previous sections, we can understand why this may be the case. Again, for Stylophora pistillata, as the calcium level is increased in an artificial seawater medium from 0 to 800 ppm, the calcium uptake by the coelenteron increases in a linear fashion.4 The uptake by most of the tissues other than the calicoblastic epithelium also increases in a linear fashion. There is no data specific to the calicoblastic epithelium, but the data show that calcification does not increase above 360 ppm calcium.

If the calcium is let into the calicoblastic epithelium by a calcium channel, then the influx of calcium is dependent on the concentration in the coelenteron, and the proportion of time that the calcium channels are open. Since the cells themselves control the gating of the calcium channels, they presumably can control their internal calcium levels at will UNLESS there is not enough calcium outside of the cells to go through the gate, cross the calicoblastic epithelium cells, and get to the active transporter that sends it into the ECF. Consequently, one interpretation is that at external calcium concentrations below 360 ppm, the calcium flux into the calicoblastic cells becomes the rate-limiting step in calcification.

HTH

[Matt]

What the heck, we're all just guessing here, right? I'm going to guess a heavy metal issue. Maybe there's a problem with some of your LR, or maybe somebody played "wishing well" with a few pennies you haven't noticed... In the case of any metal, the process of leeching takes a while, so I'd do a couple of massive water changes ~50% or so, and then introduce some snails. If they live for a while, then die in a week or two, you'll be replacing a lot of your LR...

Just guessing. Free advice is worth the price you pay.

Matthew

[Quagmire]

Im wondering if something is poisoning the water.Any clean freaks in the house going crazy with glass cleaner or furniture polish?Something like those in the water would cause problems without showing up on the tests.

[Ruth]

Originally Posted by mooch28

some liquid vitamen and foods for inverts.

What liquid food and vitamens? You probably don't need to add any liquid food at all - even DT's can pollute your tank and right now it seems you are having problems so I would discontinue for a time.
While you are checking out the "clean freak" also check to see if anyone has been using insecticide anywhere around the tank or even in the house. I know I had this problem a couple of years ago and caught my son with the Raid can!