Trying Polyp Lab's "System Reef-resh" this weekend.

[Polyp Lab]

Fudge:

Yes you relying on the skimmer to remove waste.

The bacterial strains in our product, feed on nutrients in your water column that are not removable by a skimmer. For example, if you poured a cup of fertilizer into your aquarium, you'd have a serious nutrient problem. And having a skimmer wouldn't help one bit.

With system Reef-resh. you are introducing bacteria that consumes nutrients. These bacteria are readily remove by a skimmer.

These aren't "better" strains. The strains in the product form biofilms. This isn't a buzzword. Biofilms are very efficient at nutrient removal and are used in thousands of real-world applications. Furthermore, they do not "shed" the nutrients. They shed the cells themselves that have used these nutrients to grow.


And while a wavebox certainly helps polyp extension, give J&L a call and ask them if they noticed a difference in polyp extension when they started using this product. (There's a reason why they wanted to carry our product)


BTW: Nutrient poor systems are not designed to remove bacteria. They are designed to remove nutrients. This is what our product does.


I feel like I have repeated myself 10X in this thread.......

[cprowler]

.

[SuperFudge]

Originally Posted by Polyp Lab

For example, if you poured a cup of fertilizer into your aquarium, you'd have a serious nutrient problem. And having a skimmer wouldn't help one bit.

Id expect some special bacteria wouldnt adress the problem either, but ill consider it next time i put fertilizer in my tank.

Originally Posted by Polyp Lab

BTW: Nutrient poor systems are not designed to remove bacteria. They are designed to remove nutrients. This is what our product does.

Yes, they are. Biomass=life=nutrients. If you remove the life, you also remove what that life produces.
Bacteria leak....most detritus is produced by BACTERIA.
Im afraid you are adressing only a portion of a much larger process.

Heres one of many,

"The skimmer will export what's available and in a form that the skimmer can export. What is not in that form, will sit in solution, be grabbed and re-cycled by bacteria/phyto/etc again - eventually it has to go back through a form that the skimmer can export."

Lets call this fella a DR. in marine biology, and pathobiology.
He doesnt have anything to sell unfortunatly.

Originally Posted by Polyp Lab

I feel like I have repeated myself 10X in this thread.......

Please dont feel you need to for me.

[Polyp Lab]

The factual information in your quote from Bomber is correct. (That sounds like something that he would say but I could be wrong)

But while excess nutrients are "sitting in solution" they are also being grabbed by organisms that you do not want growing (like nuisance algae).

I completely understand the skepticism. It is very difficult to look at a product like this and give it the benefit of the doubt.

[estey]

I have been following this thread for awhile. Dave, I think Fudge is just skeptical of using it as alot of us spent huge amounts of money into out tanks. The idea of introducting something new to our tanks is not often very comforting as there are many products out there that are useless. These guys are just asking tonnes of questions, as they should, to decide whether or not they'd like to give it a try or not.

I have been fortunate enough to know Dave since he launched Polyp Lab and have tested his products on my own tanks well before they were released. With the system Reef-Resh, I saw my phosphate levels drop to undetectable levels and my SPS color up to be even brighter than I had ever imagined possible in a span of about 4 months. I stand behind this system that Polyp Lab has developed, it works wonders. I do not have any sort of scientific background so cannot explain how it works in any details but have seen the results first hand.

The guys at Polyp Lab have put countless hours of time and money into developing these products, I have been fortunate enough to have seen the lab first hand and have met the people who he has working there.

Cheers,

Derek

[Ruth]

I don't think that anyone is bashing Polyp Labs at all. Sure there are lots of questions and some skepticizm about using a new product and as you say rightly so. Hell follow some of the early threads on RC about Zeovit if you want to see some big time skepticizm and outright bashing.
I think that Fudge has more than proved his ability as an outstanding reef keeper and has asked some very ligitimate questions. I think that it is the way that he was answered that has a few hackles raised - again rightly so. If you read the thread you can see that there are quite a few people that have taken the plunge and are using this product and I know that talking with the folks at J&L they are very excited about it and believe in the product. I have not tried it yet so cannot comment on the actual product one way or another but may try it in the future. For now I am waiting on a new reactor to continue to use the zeovit system as I have way too many of their products to give up now.
I think that Fudge and others have every right to ask questions about this system and I believe that Polyp Labs, if they believe in their product, which I am sure they do, have a responsibility to answer his and other questions, respectfully and politely and if this means answering it over and over maybe use the quote function to show that you have already answered that specific inquiry.
Let's not let this turn into a flame war but rather continue on in a respectful manner so that all of us can learn and decide for ourselves if we want to try this product on our reefs.
Wheew

[SuperFudge]

Originally Posted by Ruth

Let's not let this turn into a flame war but rather continue on in a respectful manner so that all of us can learn and decide for ourselves if we want to try this product on our reefs.
Wheew

Amen!

[Polyp Lab]

Sorry Fudge/Cprowler/Ruth...

My snide remark earlier was uncalled for. And I would like to apologize to this forum for coming across abrasively.


And now..back to the regular program... =)

"If you don't add an appropriate carbon source, What happens ?"

The bacteria will stay in a planktonic state and can't form biofilms.
Bacteria use cell to cell communications to control gene expression amongst the cells. (This mechanisms is called quorom sensing). Some bacterial species use this to initiate biofilm formation.

At a high enough population density, these signals are able to instruct the cells to form biofilms. At lower densities, these signals are ineffective.

- If you don't add an appropriate carbon source. You can not reach the required population density.

- If you use an appropriate carbon source but without the addition of the right bacterial strains. Your bacterial flora will be in a ratio which will not permit the development of biofilms.

- If you use a different kind of carbon source like vodka or vinegar, you end up with a bloom of autotrophic bacteria. (Which are essentially useless for nutrient export)

[SuperFudge]

pysire,

You must have heard that from an advocate of DSB`s...
Yes it is Bomber, He has no need to lie, he gains nothing other than your understanding.

I am a skeptic, because for 15 years ive watched these products come and go, i am willing to bet 98% of them are all but useless.

Please understand polyp lab, im not trying to bash your product. I am sure you have put much time,effort and money into it.

But it bothers me to say "here add this source of carbon, vitamins and some amino acids....." to your tanks and it will be Nutrient Poor.

It seems backwards to me, the bacteria your feeding..do not need to be there in the first place.
If your adding something...your adding something.

Tell me, if you do not feed these bacteria a source of carbon, what happens ?

[Psyire]

All I know is that I've used this product for only 4 days and I've noticed better polyp extension on all my SPS. I even had one SPS that wouldn't extend at all, and now it is. It's gotta be doing something....