Trying Polyp Lab's "System Reef-resh" this weekend.

[Reefer Rob]

If the Reefresh system is about nutrient export shouldn’t you be posting before and after nitrate readings (or is that too personal) :-) So far only Mike has post his readings. Polyp Lab's website doesn’t specifically say that the product will reduce nitrates or to what level.

[Psyire]

So I started the Reef-Resh system today, how are you guys making out?

[StirCrazy]

I guess this is kind of a question for polyp labs, sorry for the mini hijack.

after reading the info you have on the reef-resh I am left confused and maybe you could give me something else to chew on to help me figure this out.

I was looking at the benifits, quoted next

"• Greatly enhanced colouration of corals
• Increased growth rates of corals
• Marked improvement in water quality
• Decreased nuisance algae outbreaks
• Improved fish health
• Decreased parasite outbreaks"

and then read the info on each part, well the blurbs on what it is and does.

then I read your guide lines for use

"It is very important to follow these guidelines in order to achieve the desired results. Each of these points are equally important to the success of System RF.

● Dose the components of System RF as outlined in these instructions.
● 10% bi-weekly or 25% monthly water changes. These water changes are required. Larger or more frequent water changes are unnecessary.
● Run a 1/4 cup of high quality carbon 24/7 for every 50G in a high flow area. Replace monthly.
● Use only RO/DI water in the aquarium.
● Feed your fish and corals high quality foods that will not rapidly break down.
● Do not overfeed fish and corals.
● Strong skimming that is appropriately rated for your tank size and bioload.
● Appropriately strong lighting for the type of corals you keep in your aquarium.
● Adjust and maintain water parameters to:

SG:
1.023 - 1.024 kg/m3
Temp:
79 - 81˚F
pH:
7.9 - 8.3
Ca:
420 - 450 ppm
Mg
1300 - 1400 ppm
dKH:
8 - 10

"

well after thinking about this by just following your guide lines alone you will get all the benifits you listed above with out using the reef-resh system as you guide lines are the optimal conditions for a reef tank (well except I personaly think the SG is a tad low and the Ca is a little high but still acceptable and I believe you have a typo on your units for SG should be Kg/l3 as a m3 of fresh water is about 1000Kg not 1 )

so I guess what I am asking is how does the reef-resh system enhance a already perfectly balanced and set up tank?

Steve

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

so I guess what I am asking is how does the reef-resh system enhance a already perfectly balanced and set up tank?

Steve

Well put I thought the same when I read the instructions.But didn't know how to ask the question, without sounding like I was calling them out.

[Scuba Steve]

.

[Scuba Steve]

...

[Psyire]

The whole idea of Reef-Resh is to create a low nutrient environment that your SPS and other corals can survive in. Keeping your other parameters in check just makes sense.

If you maintain these:

SG:
1.023 - 1.024 kg/m3
Temp:
79 - 81˚F
pH:
7.9 - 8.3
Ca:
420 - 450 ppm
Mg
1300 - 1400 ppm
dKH:
8 - 10

It dosen't automatically guarantee success. There are quite a few more peices to the puzzle.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by Psyire

The whole idea of Reef-Resh is to create a low nutrient environment that your SPS and other corals can survive in. Keeping your other parameters in check just makes sense.

If you maintain these:

SG:
1.023 - 1.024 kg/m3
Temp:
79 - 81˚F
pH:
7.9 - 8.3
Ca:
420 - 450 ppm
Mg
1300 - 1400 ppm
dKH:
8 - 10

It dosen't automatically guarantee success. There are quite a few more peices to the puzzle.

True but when you add:

● 10% bi-weekly or 25% monthly water changes. These water changes are required. Larger or more frequent water changes are unnecessary.
● Run a 1/4 cup of high quality carbon 24/7 for every 50G in a high flow area. Replace monthly.
● Use only RO/DI water in the aquarium.
● Feed your fish and corals high quality foods that will not rapidly break down.
● Do not overfeed fish and corals.
● Strong skimming that is appropriately rated for your tank size and bioload.
● Appropriately strong lighting for the type of corals you keep in your aquarium.

You have alot of the peices.Im not saying it doesn't work.But it would be interesting to see results from tanks useing Reef-resh,and tanks without.With
parameters and maintenence the same on all tanks.

[Jaws]

I think it could have a little to do with the undetectable amount of nutrients in our tanks that can't be measured by a $20 test kit. When I first read their requirements I thought exactly the same. However, I think that this product, if it works, might just take an already optimal tank condition to a new, slightly higher level ensuring a slightly higher level of growth and overall health. Sounds like it could be a good product if you don't mind paying a bit extra to get a bit extra. That's how I've interpreted it anyways.

My question is, theoretically, if you didn't have optimal tank conditions, and still had some nutrients in your tank that was causing algae growth, should it not still export the excess nutrients and help starve the nuisance algae?

[Polyp Lab]

"How does the Reef-resh system enhance an already perfectly balanced and set up tank?"

It is simple. System RF works by the removal of unwanted nutrients and the input of proper additives that will benefit corals.

The following are indisputable FACTS and not "claims" of our product:
- You are introducing novel bacterial strains that induce the formation of biofilms with some of the pre-existing bacteria
- These biofilms want to grow and need to consume nutrients to do it. This is the nature of bacterial micro-colonies. It is the way that bacteria spreads on your kitchen counter. It is the way that bacterial infections spread in your body. They need to eat.
- Biofilms trap nutrients in their upper layers to grow. This is how they feed. In particular, some of the strains we have selected have a preference to consume organic phosphates and nitrates.
- As these particular biofilms grow they will "shed" off some of the layers. Not all biofilms shed (especially ones in the human body), but with certain bacterial combinations in their make-up, they do.
- The sloughed off layers are either skimmed out or fish/corals will eat them.
- Having an extra entity in your aquarium that consumes these nutrients is guaranteed to lower your nutrient levels. It would not be possibly for these biofilms to sustain themselves if they did not consume nutrients.

If you are further interested, there are thousands of microbiology references that will tell you the exact mechanisms of marine biofilms. Two of our employees have post-grad degrees in microbiology, so if anyone has extremely technical questions I can direct them to Tyler or Ji Hyun.

Lastly, the addition of RF-Plus and RF-Acids is what you use to provide amino acids, vitamins and nitrate/phosphate-free coral nutrition. RF-Plus took over 6 months to develop properly. These products are highly concentrated and incredibly important to the coloration of SPS corals. If you doubt the importance of these components, a quick search on google will bring you a decent amount of starter reading material.

It is unfortunate that so many "snake-oil" products have been release in this industry. It has made many hobbyists very skeptical of any aquarium product - especially unconventional products like System Reefresh. I am a hobbyist myself, so I know exactly where you come from. When I first got into the hobby in 1996, I was conned by my LFS into wasting hundreds of dollars on useless products. At Polyp Lab, we are trying to develop a reputable name for ourselves. Releasing a snake oil product into an already infested market would not be a wise way to go about it.

We have received very good feedback on our System RF product line and I personally love reading the comments and answering questions you guys have sent over emails. We have some very intelligent reefers with open and inquiring minds in Canada. You guys are truely amaze me.

Something that I should note that has been called to my attention, the label on the RF-Fuel package is not as clear as we would like it to be. Just to clarify, RF-Fuel should be dosed every day in the amounts listed.

A more thorough explanation of the dosing regime is available on our website at www.polyplab.com/instructions.html


And lastly, to answer Stircrazy's other question:
There are a large number of hobbyists in North America who do all of the things we suggest (such as water changes, running carbon etc) who still do not have the coral health/colouration/appearance that they are looking for. I'm sure there are a handful of people who use this forum who could attest to this. Our product does not guarantee a flourescent rainbow garden in your aquarium, but it most certainly helps it along the way!

Oh and thank you for the correction on the salinity units =)