Red bugs

BMW Rider · #1 01-20-2006, 03:59 PM

I got the Interceptor yesterday and treated my qt tank. One hour after the treatment, the bugs appeared to be dead or dying. Many were still attached to the coral but there was no sign of movement other than due to water flow. By this morning there were no longer any bugs attached to the coral, or anywhere to be seen for that matter. I did a 50% waterchange and placed the carbon and filter sponge back in. The coral looks fine as do the little feather dusters and a single aptaisa that is on the frag base (I'll deal with it later, or leave it for my peppermint shrimp to dine on). I am going to keep the frag in QT a few more days to ascertain that there is no return of the bugs.

The tablet that I got was the 2.3mg dose size for dogs 2-10 lbs. Following the reccomendation of Eric Borneman that was posted on Reef Frontiers, I dosed 1/4 of the tablet. This is much higher than the original dossage that was reccomended by Dustin Dorton on reefs.org in the original trials for this treatment. His information was based on treating the main display tank and the doses were conservative to prevent unknown and unwanted effects upon other organisms. Bornemans research showed that the drug was safe at much higher dossages and durations, at least for the corals. Therefore since I was treating this acro specific pest in my 2.5 gallon QT tank, I was able to dose at 4-5 times the dose suggested by Dorton. Borneman found that the treatment at this dose was safe for the coral even after 24 hours. I left the treatment for 18 hours and there appear to be no ill effects on the coral. In fact, the coral appears to be healthier now with the bugs gone. Dorton also reccommended three treatments since the lifecycle of the bugs was unclear at that time. Borneman discovered that the bugs bear their offspring in broods, thus there was no need to retreat since the offspring are killed with the parent. With the higher doe, there was a much higher degree of certainty that there would not be any survivors left after the initial treatment. This was another reason Dorton reccommended multiple treatments at the lower dossage.

This was an easy (once I managed to get the drug) and inexpensive treatment. Thanks to those who dissuaded me from using the Lugol's dip method. I still have 3/4 of the tablet that I got to use later, though I'm not sure on the shelf life of the drug now that the tablet is out of its blister pack. It might be wise to treat all future new acros as a "just in case" measure before introducing them to the display tank. At the very least a careful inspection and qt is in order now that this problem is in our midst.

Deb, if you are able to remove all of your acros to a hospital tank for a week to treat them, I'd highly reccomend it. Bornemans research has shown that in the absence of an Acro host, the bugs will die off in 3-5 days. Thus by treating your acros in a seperate tank for a week, you eliminate them from the coral, and the main tank. He suggests that if your corals are encrusting your live rock, to move those rocks with the coral, or break up the rock to remove the encrusting coral. Once you are rid of the bugs, you can put the corals back in the tank.

Perhaps for easier future refernce, could we create a sticky post on this issue? I'm sure it will come up again.

kari · #2 01-20-2006, 11:26 PM

Ed,

How did other stuff like shrimp and crabs handle it? Some have people noted that their shrimp made it thru the treatment.

Chin_Lee · #3 01-21-2006, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kari

Ed,

How did other stuff like shrimp and crabs handle it? Some have people noted that their shrimp made it thru the treatment.

Kari
after removing all but one of the shirmps, the one shrimp made it through one treatment, then died on the second.

Crabs - acro crabs were all dead after first treatment, other ornamental crabs carcasses were seen several days after the second treatment.

If you want to keep them and if you can remove them, its highly recommended.

BMW Rider · #4 01-21-2006, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kari

Ed,

How did other stuff like shrimp and crabs handle it? Some have people noted that their shrimp made it thru the treatment.

I had the coral in a QT tank with just one other new frag. No other critters to wory about losing. There were no acro crabs in them, and had there been, I would have rescued them before treating as they would have certainly perished.

kari · #5 01-21-2006, 03:43 AM

Thanks for the notes guys. Wonder if EmilyB noticed me stealing the thread

What a toss up. Save the acros and wipe out the shrimps/crabs/misc 10million benificial little guys or let it ride and replace the acros. Again I'm starting to lean toward acro replacement. Maybe simple joe QT tank for acro is the answer.

EmilyB · #6 01-21-2006, 06:54 AM

I'm not seeing any acro problems that would indicate treatment at this point so I'll just hold off for now. Ed, did you have any other frags in the QT with mine? Just curious since I don't seem to see any problems at this end.

sumpfinfishe · #7 01-21-2006, 07:51 AM

Sorry to hear the news Deb, tho it seems we all have to battle them at one time or another. I don't know how well stocked your tank is now with sps but I would suggest treatment sooner than later.

I had a bout with them last year and it was a simple thing to treat-hydroids were way more of a pain in the a$$. If you leave them too long, before you know it they will be everywhere and your acro's polyps will not be able to open. I ran a hospital tank with all my sps and a smaller dose of interceptor for about 3 days and I haven't seen any since-tho I'm sure they will be back one day

EmilyB · #8 01-21-2006, 07:24 PM

Removing the sps would mean removing all the rock....I have sps encrusted everywhere.

And I'm not killing my 11 shrimp. Guess I'll wait it out. Thanks guys.

Never had any polyps open anyway with the bflies....

BMW Rider · #9 01-22-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmilyB

I'm not seeing any acro problems that would indicate treatment at this point so I'll just hold off for now. Ed, did you have any other frags in the QT with mine? Just curious since I don't seem to see any problems at this end.

I did have another frag in the QT, but there were never any bugs on it. I left it in until I treated since I couldn't be sure they hadn't moved over to it. I never did see any on it though. The frag from you did extend its polyps finally after the bugs were gone, the other frag always had its polyps well expanded. I'm just moving both into my tank now as there is no sign of any more bugs. Just so you know, they are extremely tiny and difficult to see without magnification. My coral QT tank is only a 2.5 gallon, so I could get a pretty close up view - only a few inches away. I could just make them out moving around on the coral. From normal viewing distances in a tank, it might be very hard to see them. Under 10x magnification of the coral, I could make out the distinct red spot that is characteristic of these bugs, but they still appeared small. There were actually quite a few of them once you got the close up view.

Here is a picture I got of a branch of the coral with the bugs to give you some idea as to how hard they are to see. The little amber specks are the bugs. They actually were moving around quite a bit, which is really the thing that helped me to spot them. Had they been still, I might have totally missed them.