Vibrant, nitrates and my experiences. The good, the bad and the ugly

[gregzz4]

Any updates from anyone on Vibrant?

All I can find on the web, aside from the flood of 'good' reviews, is a few notes about tank crashes.

In the meantime, I think I'll stick with managing NO3/PO4 levels through dosing, and I'm liking results from adding amino acids

[straightrazorguy]

Thanks for the info! I'd like an update on Vibrant too!

Originally Posted by gregzz4

In the meantime, I think I'll stick with managing NO3/PO4 levels through dosing, and I'm liking results from adding amino acids

What kinds of amino acids are you using Greg? Where can I find some info on aminos?

[hillbillyreefer]

I’ve been using it since June at 1ml/10 gallons every 4 days trying to eradicate a years old gha problem. At the start I had undetectable nitrates and virtually undetectable Phos using a Hanna ULR.

Anytime I’ve had SPS brown out or STN start I’ve done something else stupid, like badly fluctuate alk. I don’t attribute any of the problems to the Vibrant. My LPS has receded somewhat and not grown much it’s all still alive, I assume Vibrant has contributed to that but probably isn’t the only factor.

There was a ball of Cheato in the sump. After a couple months it simply disintegrated and disappeared. At this point my Phos and nitrate spiked. Phos went to about .44ppm and nitrates were at about 5ppm. Lanthanum chloride was used to drop the Phos.(I’m guessing this contributed to some stn and browning of the sps.) Remove all your macro algae’s before starting the dosing.

As the cheato decayed the GHA had a slight resurgence in growth rates for about 10days.

Overall the gha has basically quit growing, has receded and not returned on some small patches. The war hasn’t been won yet but slowly the battles are. When I started with the vibrant some bubble algae had begun to grow on a new frag, after a couple months of dosing it just disappeared overnight never to return. My water is crystal clear, glass doesn’t need cleaning as often, except for the coraline algae whose growth seems to have accelerated.

My nitrates are back to undetectable and phos is back down to .01ppm last test. The tank gets a small dose of KNO3 daily. I haven’t had any Dino problems yet, but anticipate them showing up when/if the gha finally succumbs.

I’m happy with the results so far, about to open my second bottle. It’s been the only solution I’ve found that has even put a dent in the GHA. If it rids the tank of the gha I’ll be dancing naked in the streets(I live in the middle of nowhere, you won’t see it on the news).

It’s like any other additive, weigh the pros and cons, make sure you have a good reason to use it and introduce it slowly.

[gregzz4]

Originally Posted by straightrazorguy

What kinds of amino acids are you using Greg? Where can I find some info on aminos?

I've been using TLF AcroPower. I used to add Brightwell's to my frozen food but am now manually dosing to document/monitor the effects.
It's only been a couple weeks so no solid info as of yet.

[Frogger]

I tried Acropower for a while but found it was ending up being food for cyano.

As stated at the beginning of this thread. I tried Vibrant but instead of helping with the GHA it started my year and a half battle with cyano. I have good periods and bad periods with the cyano. I have to vacuum it out at least once every 2 weeks right now (bad period) or it starts to take over the tank. I removed my sand bed last year as it was one of the culprits.

Still have GHA that I also vacuum out once every 2 weeks. The green hair algae only grows is many small patches and hasn't really spread.

It is not nutrients or water flow that cause the cyano and the GHA. I believe it is the lack of nutrients and unstable nature of the nutrients in the tank. I have to manually add nitrates and phosphates or they quickly zero out causing not only the corals to look like crap but the cyano from growing crazy.

Not sure why I feed heavy enough, do not over skim and have enough fish. I can't find a fish/ snail/ urchin that will make an effort to eat the GHA.

[gregzz4]

I agree with you Glenn that it's definately a balancing act with nutrients, but also beneficial bacterias.
When I first started dosing nitrogen and phosphorus, you were the first to agree that it's needed. Since then, I've not needed to run either GFO or Carbon.
And, after I balanced mine, I stopped dosing both NO3 or PO4 products. My tank balanced itself with fish load, SPS and just a filter sock with a decent-skimmer.

With that in mind, I'm considering adding some bacteria to my new tank(started 2 mths ago). Either I'll use Seachem Pristine, or something similar such as MB7. Haven't decided yet. If we could buy DR Tim's I'd consider it too.

As for GHA/Cyano, in my last tank (shut down before summer) I had great success with as above; decent skimming, a sock changed weekly, a bi-weekly water change, and some hit/miss rock turkey basting. I even stopped cleaning the sand. It got to the point where if I didn't like the look of the sand, I'd just siphon the top off and replace it with new - maybe 10lbs once/year.

Near the end before I shut the tank down for a re-do last spring, I was getting some hair algae and cyano, but only due to me not basting the rock and cleaning the sand.

I went 3 years without gha/cyano issues before I got lazy.

So, I feel that with a decent WC schedule/filter sock changes/clean rocks and sand when needed, we should be able to keep our tanks balanced without spending $40/cup for a product that might/may throw our tanks completely out of balance.

I feel that, with the 'right' kind of bacteria that won't upset my SPS, my tank will be balanced for years as it was between my restart in 2016 and this last shutdown 2019.

I currently have some bacterial 'mulm' on my LR that is gobbling up enough of the nutrients in my water to upset my SPS, causing them to pale some, and leaving a 'sludge' all over my rocks and sand.
This weekend, I'm planning on adding either MB7 or Pristine in small doses to clear this up and see what happens.

Maybe this should have been posted in a different thread, but it's relevant to Vibrant's claims of removing 'sludge'

[gregzz4]

Glenn, balancing the bacteria in our tanks is difficult.
Some eat the nutrients which algae love, and some eat those which Cyano loves.
This is why I'm on this new trek to find what product will add the necessary bacterias which will out-compete nuisance stuff, yet still keep my SPS happy by not out-competing them.

Thus far, adding nitrogen and phosphorus has fuelled the brown crap, so I stopped that dosing.

I've also tried dried coral foods and phyto foods. Didn't document any change as that was all happening during the liquid dosing phase, so was all part of the ugly after-affects.

Since then, the only thing beyond frozen foods that has kept my corals happy-ish and returns their colors is liquid amminos. This still fuels the brown crap, but at a much slower rate, and my SPS are finally starting to look 'correct'.

I'll report back when I find which bacterial additive works for me.

[hfp75]

I was having a bit of GHA and GBA and was struggling. I tried Vibrant, and it worked, the GHA and almost all of the GBA went away, when I started to tapper back the Vibrant it took like 2-3 days and everything started to look bad, then my one Frogspawn melted followed by a torch and few other things. I had a fish die - probably from the ammonia/nitrites from the RTN of the LPS. Did a bunch of H2O changes and things settled down - then I got Dinos and lost another 2 fish.

I basically did a partial restart. I pulled out all the sand and about 2/3 of the rock. I had rock cooking and got new sand and presto we are in business. My tank never really did a cycle after the sand/rock replacement. I did 1/2 of the sand one week and the other half about 2 weeks later. So, now I have new sand and a bunch of new live rock. Tank looks good and I have restocked it with fish. Some corals, but the corals are not really all thriving, so my params are still normalizing. I'll give it another week and I will do a SUMP clean out too. This should be almost a full reset over a few week period.

In the end, I think that my initial problems from GHA/GBA were from a sand bed that had 2 problems, first it had sand that was too large in size - lets detritus collect, second it had been in for 4'ish yrs and was saturated and the detritus was fermenting there. New sand is a finer size, less likely to let detritus seep in...

My dinos are gone and I am keeping lighting low, corals light (not many), and getting fish established to get nutrients into the tank, once its a few months old I'll try more corals again... I have added in chaeto from my other tank and it slowly disintegrates - providing nutrients for the bacteria.

I noticed that my Dinos really took a hit when I started adding fish and Chaeto right into the main display and did a 3 days black out followed by really weak light. The tank looks good.... I am afraid the Dinos might return if I brighten up the lights or let my nutrients drop off... Good thing I can add in chaeto from the other tank...

I keep waiting for New Tank Syndrome, but so far it really hasn't happened... maybe my bacteria cultures from the old rock and sump have done their part and stabilized the tank.

In the end, Vibrant was a fix for a problem that needed an intervention. I should have just changed the sand initially. Could have saved a bunch of heartache. Vibrant is just a carbon source to rev up the bacteria..... then the bacteria consume more nutrients, in fact the goal is that the good bacteria will compete for nutrients - thus starving out algaes. Not a bad theory, but for me it came down to a nutrient problem, from an old sand bed.

I would be curious to know how to remove a carbon source from an aquarium that relies on it. Vibrant = Steroids (for bacteria) (When the Vibrant went away the bacteria went through a die off as they adjusted to the withdraw, and this in turn started a reaction of bad events)

[Frogger]

Greg you mentioned a few things that might be right. Bacteria is definitely a major player, considering Cyano is one. Good competition could be the long term solution. been trying mostly to do this chemical free as to not upset the bacteria levels any more than they are already out of wack.

Not too sure about maintenance required on a well balanced tank.

I have two main tanks. A 35 gallon reef tank with a deep sand bed that has been set up for 16+ years. All I run is a small tunze skimmer on it with good water flow. I currently do not have filter socks running on it. I have a wide range of corals in it some like my bonsai has been growing since the tank initially set up. I have had problems many years ago with this tank but now I do absolutely nothing to the tank. Change the water once every 6 months if I am lucky, add nothing other than 2 part to balance the alkalinity/calcium usage manually. Check the alkalinity/calcium levels once every month and they never change. This tank is ultra low maintenance. I currently do not even know what the nitrates or phosphates are, nor do I care.

The other tank is a 75 gallon reefer. It has been set up for about 4 years now. This is the one that I am having problems with and have trouble balancing the nutrients and alkalinity. I check the alkalinity almost daily change the water once every 1 to 2 weeks, check the PO3 twice a week and the nitrates once every week or so. The alkalinity usage fluctuates quite regularly and if I do not catch it right away the corals can go in a rapid decline. I add calcium and alkalinity via a doser. I try to keep both nitrates and phosphates at detectable amounts but have had serious issues (algae/cyano/ corals STNing) when I have tried elevating these levels.

I have been on Reef2Reef forms talking with some of the experts about it on cyano specific forms and nobody seems to have a full understanding of cyano. GHA is more an inconvenience that I can deal with.

The cyano can be another beast all together and if I am not careful dinos can be the end result, this (dinos) is why it is so important that I do not let me nutrients bottom out.

[hillbillyreefer]

Thanks for that hfp75, the more information out there the better, it doesn’t matter if it was a good or bad experience.