nitrites

[Scavenger]

Don't think nitrites will, but once bacteria convert it to nitrates; YUP lots of algae is likely.

[digitalsteve]

perhaps thats why i have an algae bllom in the past 2 day s

[Scavenger]

Originally Posted by digitalsteve

perhaps thats why i have an algae bllom in the past 2 day s

I was just poking around some older posts. Am I correct in assuming your tank has been set up for around 1 month?? If so, did it fully cycle before you started adding your livestock? The thing is tanks need time to mature and algae blooms are a growing pain they must all go through with very few exceptions. Normally you would see the diatoms bloom followed by cyno and then the dreaded hair algae, but this is normal and keeping your water as clean as possible will normally shorten the duration of your unwanted guests. You will find various opinions on how to deal with these initial blooms. My thoughts are just keep them off the coral and rocks but let them run their course. That's just my opinion.

Now the key thing I think you should figure out is if you had a full cycle on the tank yet. Mixing stuff up (substrate) adding livestock too fast or too many intitial water changes during the cycle will slow the process down and could cause smaller (re)cycles to follow.

The fact that you have high nitrates now, indicate you may be only part way through your initial cycle or are having a (re)cycle. But as you have a stocked tank, water changes are the course I would suggest, but it may take some time for your water perameters to settle down.

If I was wrong and your tank is older, well most of this is then CRAP.
Also others may post opinions too here, don't take my word for gospel, I have far less experience than some of our members here.

[digitalsteve]

tank is established , i bought it already set up off of somebody and it is at least a year old . but i had a wrasse die on me in the last two days , before that everything was peachy and any advice i get is greatly appreciated. so thanks

[digitalsteve]

if i were to change the tank substrate ( i have a star to clean the bed) to something other then sand would i have to cycle the whole tank again , and would a 40 % water change affect my other livestock ? ( purple pseudochromis and 2 clowns as well as various lps, and sps ) would this eliminte a large amout of the nitrites( also i want a brighter substrate and something that wont cloud up every time i move something in my tank )

[Rikko]

Nitrites in and of themselves aren't harmful to most of your tank residents, but their presence is indicative of something that's gone a little awry.
Initially, that may begun with an ammonia spike which could have stressed everybody out.. If NH4 now tests as 0, we're past that hurdle so don't worry about it.
That nitrite will also end up as nitrate in short order, which isn't necessarily "harmful" to a lot of things in the tank (though nitrate toxicity seems pretty hotly debated by the chem nerds.. Suffice it to say that high nitrates shouldn't be a reason for you to stress your whole tank by doing a massive water change by adding insufficiently-dissolved salt). But that ultimately ends up as a nutrient increase.
I've seen a few scientific types saying that algaes will preferentially take up nitrogen higher up the nitrogen cycle - that is, they will more readily consume ammonia than nitrite, nitrite than nitrate. Either way, and at some point, something's going to be eating that stuff up and it'll probably look ugly.

If it were me, I'd probably mix up 10-15 gallons of new seawater and change 10% a day until you've used up all the new water. That won't equal a complete water change by any means (0.9^10 = 34% of your initial dissolved gunk remaining, if my math is right), but it'll be much more gentle.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Rikko

Nitrites in and of themselves aren't harmful to most of your tank residents, but their presence is indicative of something that's gone a little awry.

"Nitrite, when in excess levels attaches its self to the hemoglobin and inhibits O2 transport in the blood"

How is that not harmfull?

Steve

[Aquattro]

called methemaglobinemia, the effects of which are offset somewhat by chloride. While still potentially toxic, it's less toxic to SW fish than FW, IIRC

[Rikko]

Nitrite disrupts multiple physiological functions in aquatic animals. Jensen Frank B Institute of Biology, University of Southern Denmark, Campusvej 55, DK-5230 M Odense, Denmark. fbj@biology.sdu.uk Comparative biochemistry and physiology. Part A, Molecular & integrative physiology (2003 May), 135(1), 9-24.

Abstract

Nitrite is a potential problem in aquatic environments. Freshwater fish actively take up nitrite across the gills, leading to high internal concentrations. Seawater fish are less susceptible but do take up nitrite across intestine and gills. Nitrite has multiple physiological effects. Its uptake is at the expense of chloride, leading to chloride depletion. Nitrite also activates efflux of potassium from skeletal muscle and erythrocytes, disturbing intracellular and extracellular K(+) levels. Nitrite transfer across the erythrocytic membrane leads to oxidation of haemoglobin to methaemoglobin (metHb), compromising blood O(2) transport. Other haem proteins are also oxidised. Hyperventilation is observed, and eventually tissue O(2) shortage becomes reflected in elevated lactate concentrations. Heart rate increases rapidly, before any significant elevations in metHb or extracellular potassium occur. This suggests nitrite-induced vasodilation (possibly via nitric oxide generated from nitrite) that is countered by increased cardiac pumping to re-establish blood pressure. Nitrite can form and/or mimic nitric oxide and thereby interfere with processes regulated by this local hormone. Steroid hormone synthesis may be inhibited, while changes in ammonia and urea levels and excretion rates reflect an influence of nitrite on nitrogen metabolism. Detoxification of nitrite occurs via endogenous oxidation to nitrate, and elimination of nitrite takes place both via gills and urine. The susceptibility to nitrite varies between species and in some cases also within species. Rainbow trout fall into two groups with regard to susceptibility and physiological response. These two groups are not related to sex but show significant different nitrite uptake rates.

from http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hreadid=384359

There we go. They did one experiment and finally killed a shrimp at 109ppm nitrite. 19 ppm for chinook salmon fry. In the nastiest FW tank I've ever had the joy of water testing, I've never seen it exceed 4ppm. I'm sure it's possible, but unlikely to happen.

Another long-winded thread by Randy: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...=nitrite+toxic

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

Consequently, there seems little new evidence that nitrite is especially toxic. Without pronouncing anything dramatic, I probably would not worry about it in your tank, especially since it may just be a testing error.

[StirCrazy]

from the thread you posted
"Growth of the shrimps reared at 4, 8, and 20 mg/L nitrite-N was significantly lower than control animals and those reared at 2 mg/L nitrite-N after 20 days. EC50 (concn. that reduced growth by 50% of that of the controls)"

looks like even 4mg/l is having an advers effect to me. and it was stated that the effect in salt water was not as great as in fresh water. so that explains a lot there.

Steve