High phosphates-using reactor and can't get them down

[LeanneP]

Originally Posted by warriorcookie

Well, it was a bit of an experiment for my tank and I'm only a few weeks in but the results came quick. My issue was my NO3 was undetectable, and my PO4 was too as long as I used GFO. As soon as I ran out of GFO my PO4 would skyrocket fast but NO3 would stay at 0.

Wish I had more time to go further in depth, but start with the basics: weekly/bi-weekly water changes including vacuuming the sand and blowing off the rocks, good skimmer, don't let uneaten food sit, rinse food before feeding, good cleanup crew, etc.

It appears that an imbalance between nitrates, phosphates, and carbon will cause cyano as it was a constant fight in my tank.

First I started feeding the fish and corals a lot more than ever. PO4 raised quickly (over .2ppm) and eventually finally NO3 slowly started coming up. Then I resumed dosing carbon and bacteria. I use prodibio. I'm sure MB7 or the like with vodka or sugar would work too. Make sure you read on the proper way to dose carbon before you start.
Then I started to dose NaNO3 to bring up my NO3 to around 2ppm. As soon as it got high enough I had a bacterial bloom and the next day my PO4 was .02ppm without GFO! All I've had to do is keep my NO3 between 1-2ppm and it keeps the PO4 down.

I'm hoping I can keep this balance moving forward without having to dose NaNO3 on a regular basis, but we'll see. It is extremely cheap if I do end up having to dose.

The idea is bacteria need to consume nitrate, phosphate and carbon. I was putting plenty of bacteria in the tank, giving them lots of carbon and phosphates, but they were starved for nitrates. As soon as I gave them more nitrates they gobbled up the phosphates. Then my skimmer started pulling out some pretty thick and stinky skimate!

Wow, that is super interesting! I have stopped using any carbon in the last 6 months because my coral beauty got hole in the head and is super sensitive to it. Not sure if that may be contributing to my issues but it is interesting how I have almost no nitrates as well. I am assuming you are talking about regular carbon or is there is a different kind I have missed? How are you adding the carbon and how much are you using? I am just a little hesitant to use carbon and risk losing my fish. I just have one spot of cyano in one of my lower flow areas but it is obviously telling me things are not balanced like you are saying.
Tang daddy mentioned about my R/O water. We have really bad water quality where I live, so bad we don't drink it from the tap and have boil water advisories often. We decided to get a Culligan water system so we could hook it to our fridge and also for the tank. I did not realize that the water quality would not be as good as my cheapo R/O unit I got from J & L. It was okay in the begining but after changing all the filters again I was still getting 10 on the tds meter and my NO4 coming out was .22. The membrane was $170 bucks and I still wouldn't have really had really great water so I went back to my old one. I think this is what has really messed up my tank.

[Ryanerickson]

He's talking about a carbon source not black charcoal for water clarity. A carbon source will feed bacteria. A example is np pro by aquaforest with this you would be feeding bacteria that will help reduce phosphates and nitrates your bacteria source would be aquaforest pro bio-s. I'm using aquaforest as a example there's many other carbon and bacteria products.

[LeanneP]

Originally Posted by Ryanerickson

He's talking about a carbon source not black charcoal for water clarity. A carbon source will feed bacteria. A example is np pro by aquaforest with this you would be feeding bacteria that will help reduce phosphates and nitrates your bacteria source would be aquaforest pro bio-s. I'm using aquaforest as a example there's many other carbon and bacteria products.

Yes, thanks. I was assuming it was not regular carbon for water clarity. Never stop learning about new things when issues arise that you haven't had to deal with yet. So is this a better way to deal with high phosphates then?

[tang daddy]

Even after changing the filters you are getting bad tds this is odd as the ro membraine would be stripping the water clean one would think....

I am almost 💯% certain it's your water that is adding to the phosphates, you may want to try to add some nitrates and carbon source "slowly" to see if it helps bring down the phosphates. As Warriorcookie has mentioned he had to add nitrates in order for his phos to drop down as they play hand in hand dragging each other down.

So if you only have a lot of one and none of the other then that's where the imbalance is and alsolock your phos where it is and not allowing it to drop lower. Rowa phos will cost you and arm and leg if you have to change it weekly.

Maybe try a brightwell bio brick and add some nitrates to help bring your phos down. You can also try reef biofuel and wet skimming as a carbon source. Any adjustments you make do it slow and watch your tank close for any I'll effects.

[LeanneP]

Originally Posted by tang daddy

Even after changing the filters you are getting bad tds this is odd as the ro membraine would be stripping the water clean one would think....

I am almost 💯% certain it's your water that is adding to the phosphates, you may want to try to add some nitrates and carbon source "slowly" to see if it helps bring down the phosphates. As Warriorcookie has mentioned he had to add nitrates in order for his phos to drop down as they play hand in hand dragging each other down.

So if you only have a lot of one and none of the other then that's where the imbalance is and alsolock your phos where it is and not allowing it to drop lower. Rowa phos will cost you and arm and leg if you have to change it weekly.

Maybe try a brightwell bio brick and add some nitrates to help bring your phos down. You can also try reef biofuel and wet skimming as a carbon source. Any adjustments you make do it slow and watch your tank close for any I'll effects.

Thanks for the info from everyone. The Culligan membrane is 2 years old and I did some reading and it is what takes out the phosphates not the rest of the filters. Even when it was new I think I was still at about 5 on the tds which is not really good enough so I am better off using the cheapo one that gives me 2 on the tds. I just assumed because it was a more expensive system it would give me better water but I guess us humans don"t need it that clean.

[LeanneP]

Originally Posted by Ryanerickson

He's talking about a carbon source not black charcoal for water clarity. A carbon source will feed bacteria. A example is np pro by aquaforest with this you would be feeding bacteria that will help reduce phosphates and nitrates your bacteria source would be aquaforest pro bio-s. I'm using aquaforest as a example there's many other carbon and bacteria products.

H Ryan, I have found the pro bio-s at J & l but it doesn't look like they carry the np pro. Just wondering where you get yours from? Would I need to dose anything else to get the tank balanced again? I have got my phosphates down to .5 now but I have been getting cyano off and on over the past year so I think that I do need to do what you and Warriordog have suggested to get the tank balanced again.

[Ryanerickson]

I get mine on amazon.com but I'm pretty sure jl will get it in soon as more aquaforest products are on there way right now.

[intarsiabox]

Originally Posted by LeanneP

H Ryan, I have found the pro bio-s at J & l but it doesn't look like they carry the np pro. Just wondering where you get yours from? Would I need to dose anything else to get the tank balanced again? I have got my phosphates down to .5 now but I have been getting cyano off and on over the past year so I think that I do need to do what you and Warriordog have suggested to get the tank balanced again.

Aquariumdepot.ca carries NP Pro.

[maron6977]

If you want to get your PO4 down , use Fozdown . Contact TimT on forum. Mine were as high as 70 at one time . The stuff works instantly & way cheaper than GFO . Can't tell you how much I spent on that stuff .

Now my PO4 is down to .00 & quit using Fozdown a few weeks ago .

Now trying to raise back up !

[warriorcookie]

Products like Fozdown scare me. First off, you have to get the dosing 100%. Too much by accident is disastrous.

Second, any precipitate you don't pull out with filter socks settles in the rocks and what not. What happens to it over time? I've heard lots of anecdotal incidents to give me pause.


So far my experiment with dosing carbon, bacteria and NaNO3 has been wonderful. NO3 and PO4 are both verging on ULNS with no GFO and it's cheaper than even Fozdown. I'm certainly not the first to do it, just seems alot haven't caught on to keeping NO3 and PO4 BALANCED rather than just close to 0.