An observation about sand and fine sand

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by Pike

When I started to have cyano algae problems I checked my RODI unit and realized all filters and membrane needed replacement. I then started to use Prodibio as well and it solved the problem

Okay, now let's pretend your RODI stuff is in good shape and you don't want to spend/afford the $$$ on dosing stuff.

Or how about you're doing everything right but your tank is 3 years old+ and you still have these issues.

Or what if you have a really large bioload because that's what you signed up for when you started this hobby.

Or what if your wife really, really likes to feed the fish and it's conditional to the tank taking up 6' x 2' + worth of the living space in your house.

Or what if this and that and whatever with rice?

Anyway, my point is that I've helped a ton of people overcome these sorts of issues and it all begins with removing old/dirty sand and running for at least a few months BB. You can add after you've overcome your problems if it just sets your soul into eternal torment. Or you can just cover the bottom with corals. Or you can just live with it because a clean tank > a dirty tank.

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by Carrera75

Were you really expecting everyone to agree with you? Your way is not the only way to do things buddy. What works for you might not work for me and vice versa.

If I had said "you need to go BB, that's the only way to set up a tank", then no, I'd expect this sort of vigorous defense. However, I didn't state that

Here's an analogy: If your room is dirty, clean it.

[Carrera75]

Originally Posted by albert_dao

If I had said "you need to go BB, that's the only way to set up a tank", then no, I'd expect this sort of vigorous defense. However, I didn't state that

Here's an analogy: If your room is dirty, clean it.

Last time I was at your store (Oceanic Corals) I noticed that there was a lot of hair algae in your tanks and if I remember correctly they are bare bottom

[Pike]

Originally Posted by albert_dao

Okay, now let's pretend your RODI stuff is in good shape and you don't want to spend/afford the $$$ on dosing stuff.

Or how about you're doing everything right but your tank is 3 years old+ and you still have these issues.

Or what if you have a really large bioload because that's what you signed up for when you started this hobby.

Or what if your wife really, really likes to feed the fish and it's conditional to the tank taking up 6' x 2' + worth of the living space in your house.

Or what if this and that and whatever with rice?

Anyway, my point is that I've helped a ton of people overcome these sorts of issues and it all begins with removing old/dirty sand and running for at least a few months BB. You can add after you've overcome your problems if it just sets your soul into eternal torment. Or you can just cover the bottom with corals. Or you can just live with it because a clean tank > a dirty tank.

I understand what you mean. But the prodibio is not that expensive. Replacing the sand would be much more expensive and more work.And you signed up for an expensive hobby as much as you signed up for a large bioload.. And as for your wife well ..you need to give her something else to play with my man

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by Pike

I understand what you mean. But the prodibio is not that expensive. Replacing the sand would be much more expensive and more work.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here on both counts. Prodibio IS expensive because it's recurring, open-ended cost that might not necessarily fix the problem. Not to say that removing an old sandbed fixes a problem, but it IS free, or damn near free, to do.

Work-wise, like anything, it's easy if you know what you're doing. I helped another board member pull out 1/3rd of the sandbed from his 60 gallon cube the other day. Took max 7 minutes. No mess in the tank, no cloudy water, like nothing happened. 1" diameter hose, some buckets and a helping hand is all you need.

Originally Posted by Pike

And you signed up for an expensive hobby as much as you signed up for a large bioload..

I don't follow the line of reasoning here given that signing up for an expensive hobby and large bioload do not need to be mutually bound to signing up for doing more work than you have to.

Originally Posted by Pike

And as for your wife well ..you need to give her something else to play with my man

"Honey! I just got home for the Love Shoppe with something for you. It's a deluxe model, should keep you happy for years. Now run along while I go spend $$$ on my fish tank." Not sure if that's how the world works. Can we get a chime from either some contemptuous wives or men who have to deal with contemptuous wives? lol... ♥

[Pike]

lol , super delux !!oh man im ****ing my pants laughing dude !!

Ok so I guess you mean to wash the old sand and put it back as opposed to buying new ? , of course i didn t think about that. And my tank is just 65 g, Prodibio would be more expensive for you.

[Masonjames]

Originally Posted by Masonjames

Interesting. Seems then like alberts observations could prove profitable for some.

Curious then as to why this potentially valuable information is being derailed.

Originally Posted by albert_dao

I think the spirit of the discussion has become lost under the polarization of BB vs sand.

I may be wrong in the spirit or the intent of the post. But I would assume it was not in the direction of justifying a algae free sandbed system.

We all have seen many beautiful algae free systems which have a sand bed. But not everyone has such a tank. Many if not most have nutrient problems, and resulting algae problems.

What benifit is it to those who have such a problem to simply say, I don't have such a problem. He's a picture to prove so. Who does this actually bennifit when the information quickly becomes redirected to ooohhh. Pretty tank.

I think any hobbiest with any real reefing time under there belt realize that no one way is the right way and success comes more from the hobbiest and the choices and practices therein.

Not everyone can replicate others success in the same fashion. So for many out there with algae problems, removing the sandbed could make life allot simplier for them. But instead of promoting information which may be valuable to that individual, we instead insist on sharing how "I" got it all figured out, overshadowing the actual practical and potentially beneficial information originaly presented.

No, removing a sand bed will not solve every problem. But for those who lack the experiance, the knowledge, the tools and equipment, the luck, doing so can prove to be benifical. Especially for those experiencing nutrient problems which result in the unwanted. The dependency and need for some equipment, regimiments, dosings, investments in, etc etc, can be lessened. Stability of the system and biological fluxes are lessened. All things which make running of the system simplier and easier for the user while they try and correct the issue or get a better undersrnading on the runnings of the system. A sandbed is the largest living organism in the system. And maintaining that system is not easy for everyone for a multitude of reasons. And just because you can and do, doesn't mean the next will have the same abilities to do so with the same success.

Frankly nutrient problems, algea problems, should in today's indistry be a rarity and not a norm. There simple to control and manage. But those who don't know how to mange them can't get the information they need because we love to overshadow inforamtion with our self promoting.

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by Masonjames

I may be wrong in the spirit or the intent of the post. But I would assume it was not in the direction of justifying a algae free sandbed system.

We all have seen many beautiful algae free systems which have a sand bed. But not everyone has such a tank. Many if not most have nutrient problems, and resulting algae problems.

What benifit is it to those who have such a problem to simply say, I don't have such a problem. He's a picture to prove so. Who does this actually bennifit when the information quickly becomes redirected to ooohhh. Pretty tank.

I think any hobbiest with any real reefing time under there belt realize that no one way is the right way and success comes more from the hobbiest and the choices and practices therein.

Not everyone can replicate others success in the same fashion. So for many out there with algae problems, removing the sandbed could make life allot simplier for them. But instead of promoting information which may be valuable to that individual, we instead insist on sharing how "I" got it all figured out, overshadowing the actual practical and potentially beneficial information originaly presented.

No, removing a sand bed will not solve every problem. But for those who lack the experiance, the knowledge, the tools and equipment, the luck, doing so can prove to be benifical. Especially for those experiencing nutrient problems which result in the unwanted. The dependency and need for some equipment, regimiments, dosings, investments in, etc etc, can be lessened. Stability of the system and biological fluxes are lessened. All things which make running of the system simplier and easier for the user while they try and correct the issue or get a better undersrnading on the runnings of the system. A sandbed is the largest living organism in the system. And maintaining that system is not easy for everyone for a multitude of reasons. And just because you can and do, doesn't mean the next will have the same abilities to do so with the same success.

Frankly nutrient problems, algea problems, should in today's indistry be a rarity and not a norm. There simple to control and manage. But those who don't know how to mange them can't get the information they need because we love to overshadow inforamtion with our self promoting.

Oh, okay. Excuse me while I get back to my self promoting and not making any money by not selling sand. Incidentally, you'll find my ebook on amazon soon. Only $14.95. My personal success course should be ready for the spotlight shortly after that. Referral programs will be in place at launch. Live the life you want to live, get a barebottom reef.

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by Pike

lol , super delux !!oh man im ****ing my pants laughing dude !!

Ok so I guess you mean to wash the old sand and put it back as opposed to buying new ? , of course i didn t think about that. And my tank is just 65 g, Prodibio would be more expensive for you.

Naw, washing old sand is like putting shot tires back on your car. Buying new sand is cheap. $45 for 40 lbs. That should give you enough shallow coverage to replace on a 65g at least three times, once each year ---> $15/year. Pretty affordable, assuming you decided to go back to it.

[Masonjames]

Originally Posted by albert_dao

Oh, okay. Excuse me while I get back to my self promoting and not making any money by not selling sand. Incidentally, you'll find my ebook on amazon soon. Only $14.95. My personal success course should be ready for the spotlight shortly after that. Referral programs will be in place at launch. Live the life you want to live, get a barebottom reef.

I think your confused on the intent of my post. The information and observation you originally presented was the information I am supporting.

Non the less... I agree. Reefing is made easy when the hardest part to maintain is removed. Running a coral tank is so simple when we're not trying to run a sewage treatment plant along side.