Hawaiian Ornamental Fishing Ban PASSED

[gobytron]

This is awesome.

Personally, I dont think anyone who has ever jumped on someone elses case for having a tang in too small a tank or for keeping a doomed species shouldnt have much to say about this in the negative.

We should all be banned from collecting anything wildcaught.

I'm no activist and Im happy to help destroy the oceanic ecosystems for my own pleasure for the time being but I would consider it a good thing if all but captive bred aquaria were banned from this hobby for good.

IME, that goes for live rock as well as for inverts.

just my 2 cents.

Leave the science to the science community where it can be regulated and accurately recorded.
Hobbyists have no business, unless they have proper accredation to feel they have any scientific right to "study" or breed these animals.
That's why were called hobbyists, it's a hobby for us and not a profession.

Major aquariums and zoos can do a far better job than any dedicated hobbyist in mimicing a natural habitat than anyone with even a 500 gallon tank and years of experience can.

I think the attitude that we do more good than harm is a little self righteous.

Though I would be agreeable to this if there were a rigorous testing or qualifying process for the "average" hobysist to gain access to any species banned from collection.

[Myka]

Goby, did you even read any of the links or quotes?

[kien]

[Myka]

Originally Posted by kien

Won't be much to watch Kien, not many people on the hobbyists' side of the fence...you may as well use a waving smiley to say goodbye to the hobby over the next decade (or less).

[gobytron]

I did.
And in these very specific cases, with very dedicated hobbyists or specific species of fish that CAN be bred in the environment that the average hobbyist can provide your logic stands...

I just dont believe that it will stick for the majority of species out there that are collected for this hobby.

The red tailed shark is just one example.
I have no research behind this, but my best guess would leave me to believe there are several, if not hundreds of species that are no longer in existence or endangered that this hobby is directly or at least partly responsible for.

Again, I restate that I would support it if there were a stringent qualifying procedure a hobbysist had to go through to be able to attempt the husbandry of any banned specimens but that opening it up for anyone to do is a recipe for failure.

[Myka]

Why not put legislation in place that makes it more difficult and costly (not impossible) to obtain wild caught livestock? Why can we buy wild caught Banggai Cardinals and Clownfish en masse when the average hobbyist can raise them successfully? Why not raise the price on species with lower survival rates and lower wild populations? Why not raise the price particularly on wild caught species that are currently regularly captive bred? Not only would this increase the price of captive bred fish by increasing the profitability for captive breeders and thus encouraging captive breeders, but would also help protect those species in the wild. It would be a start, and an action I think needs to take place to show that us hobbyists DO care about wild reefs and their future. Right now we look like pilferers.

The average hobbyist doesn't know the different between captive bred and captive raised. Hobbyists need to be educated.

[gobytron]

sounds like a good alternative plan...though an incredible amount of work to allocate those specific parameters for each species.
speaking as a hobbyist of course.

unfortunately, I doubt many of the policy makers are hobbyists and they see things in a very different light.

Personally I would love to pay 100$ for a Gramma Loreto...
I'm amazed such an incredible species of fish can be had for 24.95.
Or 300$ for a ribbon eel with their captive life expectancy.

An outright ban will bring prices up for sure, which in turn could create a renewed interest by policy makers in this industry.

This Ban could turn out to be the start of the exact scenario you've outlined.

[paddyob]

Originally Posted by Myka

Won't be much to watch Kien, not many people on the hobbyists' side of the fence...you may as well use a waving smiley to say goodbye to the hobby over the next decade (or less).

Myka the hobby is not going anywhere. I think, referring to my other post, some species may become non-existant in the hobby while the captive bred species thrive.

Why is it so bad to protect the ocean. I know you educate yourself well, so I am not going to try convince you, but, we protect other life forms, why not fish?

I made mistakes early on... as we all have... and partly because the LFS says ok.

Maybe its time to start approaching the LFS on this. They make money selling unsuitable fish because we let them.

Anyone walk into their favorite shop and question them on fish such as wild benggai? I have and was met by defensiveness.

Myka this hobby will die on its own if it has no regulations.

Over collection is a fact. Captive bred SHOULD be less expensive, but these facilities need to be maintained and we catch the brunt for a .25 cent fish that costs $25. Breeder needs profit. Then shipping. LFS needs profit. I worked for and LFS and know cost is ridiculously low on individual specimens compared to retail... but its the overhead.

Again. Complete ban no. Conservation of delicate species Yes.

I personally love snorkelling and on two occasions observed illegal collection. Once in Jamaica (4' seafan for drying) and once in Cuba. Sad. I tried to educate them on coral and impact... but money talks. I know sea fans are not fish... but still in the same game.

Reefing is great.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by paddyob

Myka the hobby is not going anywhere. I think, referring to my other post, some species may become non-existant in the hobby while the captive bred species thrive.

Do you realize that the way it is worded may also prevent OWNERSHIP of reef fish? Those on the pro-ban side are promoting a COMPLETE ban based on what they believe is the IMMORAL keeping of reef fish.

Originally Posted by paddyob

Why is it so bad to protect the ocean. I know you educate yourself well, so I am not going to try convince you, but, we protect other life forms, why not fish?

I absolutely am NOT saying that it is bad to protect the ocean. I am PRO-MANAGEMENT. I do not believe a complete ban is the answer, I believe management is the answer.

Originally Posted by paddyob

Maybe its time to start approaching the LFS on this. They make money selling unsuitable fish because we let them.

Anyone walk into their favorite shop and question them on fish such as wild benggai? I have and was met by defensiveness.

This is part of the battle! LFS need to get in on this. Most of them are just "sitting there" and watching instead of acting.

Originally Posted by [paddyob

Over collection is a fact.

No, it is not. Hawaii DAR (Division of Aquatic Resources) has already stated that collection in Hawaii is CURRENTLY SUSTAINABLE. That means at this moment in time, it is already sustainable.

[quote=Hawaii Division of Aquatic Resources DAR]The mission of the Division of Aquatic Resources is to manage, conserve and restore the state's unique aquatic resources and ecosystems for present and future generations.

The DAR manages the state's aquatic resources and ecosystems through programs in commercial fisheries and resource enhancement; aquatic resources protection, habitat enhancement, and education; and recreational fisheries. Major program areas include projects to manage or enhance fisheries for long-term sustainability of the resources, protect and restore the aquatic environment, protect native and resident aquatic species and their habitat, and provide facilities and opportunities for recreational fishing.[quote]

Originally Posted by paddyob

Captive bred SHOULD be less expensive, but these facilities need to be maintained and we catch the brunt for a .25 cent fish that costs $25. Breeder needs profit. Then shipping. LFS needs profit. I worked for and LFS and know cost is ridiculously low on individual specimens compared to retail... but its the overhead.

It's not overhead (that refers to building costs), it is shipping and permits that cost so much.

There are very few breeders making money out there because the prices are so low. Breeders have to push quantity. Producing "designer clowns" has helped as well.

[paddyob]

Again... I know you educate yourself so I am not debating your points.

But overhead... yes.. building costs... but in this position I use it as anything that eats into profit margins.

I know it is cities and shipping. 100%. Who pays that? LFS. Then they pass it along to us and they won't swallow that for anyone.

I know you are talking FULL ban... and I also mentioned I do not agree that is the way to go.

So come on pretty lady.. go easy on me. I'm on your side... with other thoughts!