Would you buy from an LFS that dodges questions?...****** Apology*******

[paddyob]

How about direct questions on mortality and the practice of removing animals that have a high mortality rate?

When a dealer gets defensive... to me that says "Please buy something as all I care about is money."

[Parker]

I think mortality is subjective. Most people can't keep Moorish Idols alive, but there are plenty of people that can. The same holds true for many other species does that mean they shouldn't be sold? I don't believe so and most LFS are pretty good at being able to dissuade someone from buying a fish that they might not be ready for.

You have Chromis in your tank, they have a tendency to kill each other, does that make you any better or worse than the LFS?

I'm not trying to be confrontational here, most people tend to turn a blind eye to the rules they are breaking while pointing fingers at others. Myself included, I have fish I shouldn't have.
__________________

[paddyob]

I agree to a point... but if the specimen is known to have a high mortality rate why is it still sold?

Its an animal. Short of starting a "PETA" conversation, which I definitely will not get into.... an animal is an animal... regardless of what type of animal it is.

If a tiger is treated poorly everyone would start pointing fingers.... why not fish? They have a right to live don't they?


I am no expert in this hobby by far.... but don't we expect this from the people who are supposed to be?

[Parker]

It's really up to the purchaser to make a responsible decision. The LFS may ask you questions ( How big is your tank, how long has it been operational, what other fish do you have in your tank, etcetera ) but it's up to you to be honest with yourself and answers. If people are buying fish without educating themselves first….. aren’t they just as much to blame? You can’t simply blame the LFS.

To use your example. I agree if a tiger is being treated poorly it should be dealt with, on a case my case basis. Not paint everyone with the same brush as you're suggesting. There are people out there that are very versed in caring for Tigers, should they be forced to stop doing good work because of one bad egg?

Fish definitely have the right to live, I just don't believe it's as simple as your making it out to be. As mentioned before, mortality is subjective.

[sphelps]

Really you do have to remember a LFS is a business and therefore profits are important. If you want to think that this hobby has a positive influence on the wild that's fine but realistically it simply isn't the case. I've read studies that say over 90% of all important livestock dies within a year which isn't a good number but it's probably true. Also the way I look at it is as soon as something is taken from the wild the damage is done unless you plan on returning it which obviously isn't the case. Then you also have to consider perception, there is a line between what can and can't be kept but everyone has their own lines and it's not fair for one person to come in and say their line or opinion is the right one.

To be honest if someone off the street came in and tried to tell me how to do my job or how to run my business I wouldn't respond much differently. Quite frankly if you don't like it go elsewhere, you're not being a hero you're just being annoying and disruptive. Maybe it was just a question but I see it as more than that. But that's just how I see it and I don't mean any offense.

[paddyob]

Originally Posted by sphelps

To be honest if someone off the street came in and tried to tell me how to do my job or how to run my business I wouldn't respond much differently. Quite frankly if you don't like it go elsewhere, you're not being a hero you're just being annoying and disruptive. Maybe it was just a question but I see it as more than that. But that's just how I see it and I don't mean any offense.

Wanting a direct answer is disruptive?

It had nothing to do with what your comment says. It asked for clarification to which the retailer made a snide comment.

Too bad more people are not concerned about the oceans.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by paddyob

Too bad more people are not concerned about the oceans.

This one always gets me. If more people were concerned, wouldn't there be a lot less tanks around? Removing a wild animal from it's environment and putting it in a cage is not showing great concern
Let's be honest, we're all a bit selfish in this hobby.

[paddyob]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

This one always gets me. If more people were concerned, wouldn't there be a lot less tanks around? Removing a wild animal from it's environment and putting it in a cage is not showing great concern
Let's be honest, we're all a bit selfish in this hobby.

I agree with your comment, to a point. It is more, I guess, about the lack of openness by a retailer when asked about "specific" animals.

We all know most fish are ok. But why support the purchase of specimens that are not aquarium suitable? Many Mandarins die to the inexperienced. Copperbands, Parrotfish, etc. A lot of people do not know about the special requirements some possess and some retailers do not educate.

There are many, MANY knowledgeable people in this hobby. BUT, there are also many who know nothing. There are also retailers who fall into both categories. If a retailer cannot be open about legitimate questions, then they probably also do not educate the less knowledgable of us.

I do my best to research the proper animals for my system and will personally never buy one I know has high mortality or one I am not advanced enough to support. So when I ask a retailer... it is BECAUSE I do not have the answer and expect they should. If they do not want to answer, or answer with ignorant comments.... wow. That is my point.

My only real concern... Factual and fair advice and answers from the retailer or lack there of.

[BlueWorldAquatic]

The biggest issue with this is what is the LFS hiding?

Short of asking for our costs & suppliers, there are no unreasonable questions.

The problem is is they have the answers. Are the staff train well enough to admit they don't have all the answers.

I personally can attest to not knowing everything, and tell the customer i'll check or look it up for them.

What it all comes down to is,are you confortable with the store or their answers?

You hold all the cards, if you aren't then you don't need to shop there.

Just my experience.

Ken - BWA

[reefwars]

Couldn't agree more with the last three posts and it's completely on the buyer to make smart choices.....I guess if we never brought them in they wouldn't be in our hobby in the first , at one time just about all the fish we have in our hobby were considered impossible to keep alive by the average hobbyst, but as time goes by technology gets better and people make breakthroughs with hard to keep fish

Personally I wouldn't buy a copperband but I know of those who have done well with them so hopefully someday it will be possible to own one for it's full lifespan

Although I do see what you mean pat, and a good lfs should answer all your questions and support their product