Griffie the puffer keeping in shape

[my2rotties]

But in the picture you mentioned he puffed up for food, and then in this post you said he was bitten by another puffer. If you were standing right there laughing, would you not have seen the bite happen and know why he puffed up?

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Yup and since then I have learned a lot and know better.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

But in the picture you mentioned he puffed up for food, and then in this post you said he was bitten by another puffer. If you were standing right there laughing, would you not have seen the bite happen and know why he puffed up?

No I said I have a few pictures from a year and a half ago and don't know which one is which anymore. I have one from after he was bitten and one from the food incident. Actually I have a third from even before that and I have no idea why he was puffed. Unfortunately he used to puff a lot and only lived two years before suddenly dying.

[my2rotties]

Well I can honestly say I have provided Grffie with all that I possibly can give him. I have went through hell with this fish, and am very happy to have him with and he will always be with me for the rest of his life.

There is nothing I can do more I possibly do for him, and I know in my heart I have done more then anyone else would do. I hope he has a long and happy life for however log it might be. As sad as I would be to lose him, I will be in peace with myself knowing he had a wonderful and was the king of my tank.

I didn't post pictures to have a thread about puffing being bad for him. He just does it and my friend at the LFS says it is very normal and not to worry about it. This is not the store I bought him at obviously. I do not see anything stressing him out, he eats well, he is ich and disease free and his eyes are clear and bright... I can see him hunting my reef now after the lights are out, but he will have his face sucked against the glass when I come down in the morning.

I have done all I could and know I did and I am not going to constantly worry about his puffing. He does what he needs to do and I see no stress in him afterwards. Their skin is make to do this and I am not about to worry about him now... He is happy so I am happy.

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

No I said I have a few pictures from a year and a half ago and don't know which one is which anymore. I have one from after he was bitten and one from the food incident. Actually I have a third from even before that and I have no idea why he was puffed. Unfortunately he used to puff a lot and only lived two years before suddenly dying.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

Well I can honestly say I have provided Grffie with all that I possibly can give him. I have went through hell with this fish, and am very happy to have him with and he will always be with me for the rest of his life.

There is nothing I can do more I possibly do for him, and I know in my heart I have done more then anyone else would do. I hope he has a long and happy life for however log it might be. As sad as I would be to lose him, I will be in peace with myself knowing he had a wonderful and was the king of my tank.

I didn't post pictures to have a thread about puffing being bad for him. He just does it and my friend at the LFS says it is very normal and not to worry about it. This is not the store I bought him at obviously. I do not see anything stressing him out, he eats well, he is ich and disease free and his eyes are clear and bright... I can see him hunting my reef now after the lights are out, but he will have his face sucked against the glass when I come down in the morning.

I have done all I could and know I did and I am not going to constantly worry about his puffing. He does what he needs to do and I see no stress in him afterwards. Their skin is make to do this and I am not about to worry about him now... He is happy so I am happy.

Ugh...yes I already said I apologize this became a debate. I said its not personal and I wouldn't worry about your puffer. I also just decided (and regret) to post some info about why they puff and how hard it on them. Yes their skin has evolved to handle it, doesn't mean its good. As you see from that old post, I used to think it was hilarious. I know how hard it on them now and feel terrible I ever felt it was so funny. I have learned a lot since then and thought I would pass it along. It wasn't even directed at you specifically, just a general idea of why they puff and how harsh it is when they do.

You get so incredibly defensive and I knew better (don't mean that in a bad way other than to myself). I just wish you understood why I posted and you would not have felt the need to defend anything. I think you know I feel you have given an incredible home to this puffer as I have told you this countless times and even encouraged you not to get rid of him when you thought about it because you were not going to find a home as good.

Anyways, back on topic. Great pictures and as I said before, theres not much you can do and I wouldn't worry about his puffing up.

[Snaz]

I just wanted to chime in here about defensive responses and stress. Many animals have many different response mechanisms to stress all in an effort to improve survivability; camoflauge, ink-jets, tails that fall off or just run like hell etc. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any defensive response of any creature that would put that creature in further harms way, except bee stings but that is whole hive organism thing.

To say a defensive response contributes to that creature's demise does not make sense to me on an evolutionary scale. Can anyone think of any examples where a defensive response actually does the organism harm?

I understand that puffing is probably stressful and if a puffer was puffing too much and or constantly inflated it's not going to do well but I expect whatever condition is eliciting the defensive response is more harmful than the actual response.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Snaz

I just wanted to chime in here about defensive responses and stress. Many animals have many different response mechanisms to stress all in an effort to improve survivability; camoflauge, ink-jets, tails that fall off or just run like hell etc. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any defensive response of any creature that would put that creature in further harms way, except bee stings but that is whole hive organism thing.

To say a defensive response contributes to that creature's demise does not make sense to me on an evolutionary scale. Can anyone think of any examples where a defensive response actually does the organism harm?

I understand that puffing is probably stressful and if a puffer was puffing too much and or constantly inflated it's not going to do well but I expect whatever condition is eliciting the defensive response is more harmful than the actual response.

There is a horned lizard that uses its horns when attacked to put pressure on its sinus cavities which ends up exploding its own eyes as a defensive response. There are ants that explode. There is also some species of hairy frog that breaks it bones to extend claws out from under its skin. Scientists are not sure though if they can ever get them back in.

Anyways, there are more Im sure but thats some I have heard or read about in the past. Many insects kill themselves for the good of the colony but that doesn't really count...so I guess the ants don't count

You can just do a simple google search about puffers defense mechanisms and get all the info you need about what it does to shorten their life. Just because they have evolved to be able to do it doesn't mean its good for them. Take the info how you want. If you don't believe it, you don't believe it...

Man, why do I bother to post stuff like this??? Need to remember to stay out of these things

The intentions really were good but somehow it was all taken as some kind of attack and false information. Oh well.

[Snaz]

GSP I think all of your information is great, I do not feel attacked and I doubt my2rotties feels attacked either.

My post was really an uneducated evolutionary observation and reading it again and your examples illustrate that yes some defensive responses can cause harm to the organism.

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

Man, why do I bother to post stuff like this??? Need to remember to stay out of these things

The intentions really were good but somehow it was all taken as some kind of attack and false information. Oh well.

[my2rotties]

I do not feel attacked at all, but rather tired of every single post I make turning into something other then its intention. I posted these pictures because they are quite neat and nothing was done to make him do it... it is just Griffie being a puffer. I know many people would love to have puffers and cannot for obvious reasons... so I thought it would be fun to share mine.

I tend to agree with Snaz's observation on this and I don't know how long puffers live in the wild or the aquarium. I guess I will see what happens with my guy. I am very proud of him and how far we have come since he came home with me.

I do think all puffers do puff up and perhaps since they are night fish we don't typically see it happen.

[my2rotties]

This what what Griffie had to say about this thread this morning... then he ate his breakfast and was back to doing what he does...

[fishoholic]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

I do think all puffers do puff up and perhaps since they are night fish we don't typically see it happen.

Not so sure about that, as far as I'm aware Simon never puffed. He came close when it came to feeding time but I always backed away quickly from the tank in order to stop him from getting to excited and puffing.