What Lighting?

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Myka

So, in my case I do not need the light to have high intensity low down. I would like to be able to keep the lower light LPS corals near the bottom though. I will have a 3" sandbed as well.

What do you think of the T5 idea for this type of tank? I have decided that I want to go with the Sunlight Supply T5 Retro Fit kits instead of the Tek fixture. This way I can spread the lights out from front to back better. Good idea?

the lights I compared were brand new T5 HO against a brand new PC and a 7 month old MH with a ugly dirty reflector, so you can see the MH was at a disadvantage right off the start and probably would have been 3 to 4 times the out put of the others if it were new and clean, and I wasn't going to clean the stores equipment for them as they weren't paying me

I was impressed with the T5 reflector as I think that is what caused it to be so high compared to the PC (I was expecting a 10 to 20% higher output not 40 to 50%. and I wasn't going to clean the stores equipment for them as they weren't paying me

I started out my reef with exactly what you are thinking in a 24X24X36" tank. I started off with PC/VHO. then moved to 175 MH with them then to a new MH fixture, with several lighting changes in between. I think all together I spend 5 to 7K on just lighting because 6 years ago there was really no info on lighting so that is what I decided to play with and learn.

anyways I do understand what you are trying to do but let me ask you this.. what are you calling a "low light" coral. I had mushrooms, colt, leather, zoos, open brain, GSP, Montipora digitata, caps, milli's, acros, birdnest, and a few others in a 24" deep tank.

The PC/VHO kept everything alive, but thats it.. the 175 as a good addition but only in a limited area and still no nice colors in the SPS just brown and washed out blue. so after 2 months of reading and learning and measuring different setups with my PAR meter, I built my own reflectors for a twin VHO/Twin 250 MH SE on HQI ballasts
colors picked up right away, PAR was dramatically increased over the PC/VHO combination by about 15X.

what was I getting at here, Oh ya.. anyways under the MH set up the zoos, mushrooms, ect (all the so called low light corals) also exploded in growth and colors were intensified a little. so I am personally on the side of the "No such thing as to much light" side of the argument as I have never seen a coral suffer from increased lighting when it is increased properly.

I am not a big fan of sandbeds in the tank anymore, I started off with a 6" deep one myself, and while I loved the look after about 3 years it caused problems. I took 1/2 of it out and still had problems, took the rest out and problems went away. I think I would be tempted if I had to put something in there it would be a very thin layer of coarser sand siliconed to the bottom of the tank so it looks like there is a sand bed, but you could still have crazy water movement in the tank with out moving the sand around. If I decided I needed a DSB it would be split between 3 containers remotly and I would change one of the containers every 6 months, but having said that after I got rid of the sand I still always had zero nitrates so there was no need for a remote sand bed.

try the T5's if you are having problems then you can always change them to both actinic and add a MH pendant to it like you originaly stated.. this way you are not waisting any lights like I did.

Steve

[Myka]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

anyways I do understand what you are trying to do but let me ask you this.. what are you calling a "low light" coral. I had mushrooms, colt, leather, zoos, open brain, GSP, Montipora digitata, caps, milli's, acros, birdnest, and a few others in a 24" deep tank.

What I call "low light" corals are the ones I don't want to grow like mad!!! LOL! Like GSP, my Bubble, and all the Euphyllia's. I do have really nice coloration on my Monti caps which are about 8" from my two 39W T5s. I figured if I added more T5s that I might be able to get the same coloring with the Monti's 12-14" away from the bulbs...?

what was I getting at here, Oh ya.. anyways under the MH set up the zoos, mushrooms, ect (all the so called low light corals) also exploded in growth and colors were intensified a little. so I am personally on the side of the "No such thing as to much light" side of the argument as I have never seen a coral suffer from increased lighting when it is increased properly.

I agree...never too much light (provided you can control the heat!!). I really like my GSP (it's an odd variety), but it already spreads like a mofo, I can just imagine what it would do under MH... EEK!

I am not a big fan of sandbeds in the tank anymore, I started off with a 6" deep one myself, and while I loved the look after about 3 years it caused problems. I took 1/2 of it out and still had problems, took the rest out and problems went away. I think I would be tempted if I had to put something in there it would be a very thin layer of coarser sand siliconed to the bottom of the tank so it looks like there is a sand bed, but you could still have crazy water movement in the tank with out moving the sand around. If I decided I needed a DSB it would be split between 3 containers remotly and I would change one of the containers every 6 months, but having said that after I got rid of the sand I still always had zero nitrates so there was no need for a remote sand bed.

I have critters that need the sandbed. I won't be going BB in the foreseeable future. I strongly dislike the look of it. I run three MJ1200s on a
Red Sea "Wavemaker" in my 33 which makes for 27x turnover, and although it took me quite some time to cipher out how to position the PHs without blowing my oolite sugar sized sand around...it IS possible!!! LOL!!!! It would have been much easier with Koralia's or Tunze's.

try the T5's if you are having problems then you can always change them to both actinic and add a MH pendant to it like you originaly stated.. this way you are not waisting any lights like I did.

Steve

I have a dual strip of 36" T5s that I plan on putting onto my 65. If I go MH I will use them for actinics, if I stick with T5s, then I'll use them as additional T5s.

You still haven't said exactly what you would suggest I light my tank with...? I understand you're all for the MH, but considering I refuse to put more than one MH over my tank, what type of ballast/wattage setup do you suggest? Personally, I'd like to use the PFO mini pendant. I'm thinkin a 250w HQI would likely be enough light, especially considering there is dyck all for bulb choice if I go for 400w HQI. My understanding is you get the highest PAR if you use an HQI bulb with an HQI ballast in comparison to HQI w/ electronic ballast or a mogul bulb w/HQI overdriving the bulb...?

Thanks for all your input Steve.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Myka

What I call "low light" corals are the ones I don't want to grow like mad!!! LOL! Like GSP, my Bubble, and all the Euphyllia's. I do have really nice coloration on my Monti caps which are about 8" from my two 39W T5s. I figured if I added more T5s that I might be able to get the same coloring with the Monti's 12-14" away from the bulbs...?

remember, more lights won't increase the intensity, only the spread so there still won't be anymore PAR at 12 to 14" than there is under the bulbs now, you wil just put a more even coverage of the same level by addinbg more bulbs.

ya, I had a 65X turnover with the 6" bedd, but when I upped it to 120X turn over it was insain on the sand bed so I had to keep it in the top 1/2 of the tank, when I got rid of the sand it let me even the flow out over the whole tank. and believe it or not high flow is one of the things that will prevent corals from bleaching from new lights, you just need tones of it.

Originally Posted by Myka

You still haven't said exactly what you would suggest I light my tank with...? I understand you're all for the MH, but considering I refuse to put more than one MH over my tank, what type of ballast/wattage setup do you suggest? Personally, I'd like to use the PFO mini pendant. I'm thinkin a 250w HQI would likely be enough light, especially considering there is dyck all for bulb choice if I go for 400w HQI. My understanding is you get the highest PAR if you use an HQI bulb with an HQI ballast in comparison to HQI w/ electronic ballast or a mogul bulb w/HQI overdriving the bulb...?

Thanks for all your input Steve.

Hmm, I have just been looking at lights myself so here is what I would do if you can only use 1. get a good mogal bulb enclosed reflector pendant. go with a giseman bulb say the 12.5K or "marine" I believe it is called (if AB's were easy to get I would go with there 10K but they are expensive and hard to get). and then run it with a newer style HQI electronic balllast or even better a digital ballast. (newer ones don't under drive the bulbs like the first ones 5 or so years ago did. A mogal based bulb will give you more coverage than a double ended will. actualy I believe there is some one on the board selling electronic ballast and mogal pendant for 75 bucks each but I am not sure what kind of ballasts they are. If you are using a hood you could use a retrofit reflector, but I mentioned the pendant style as it will be a little less heat.

Steve

[Myka]

Originally Posted by StirCrazy

ya, I had a 65X turnover with the 6" bedd, but when I upped it to 120X turn over it was insain on the sand bed so I had to keep it in the top 1/2 of the tank, when I got rid of the sand it let me even the flow out over the whole tank. and believe it or not high flow is one of the things that will prevent corals from bleaching from new lights, you just need tones of it.

Holy jebus!

Hmm, I have just been looking at lights myself so here is what I would do if you can only use 1. get a good mogal bulb enclosed reflector pendant. go with a giseman bulb say the 12.5K or "marine" I believe it is called (if AB's were easy to get I would go with there 10K but they are expensive and hard to get). and then run it with a newer style HQI electronic balllast or even better a digital ballast. (newer ones don't under drive the bulbs like the first ones 5 or so years ago did. A mogal based bulb will give you more coverage than a double ended will. actualy I believe there is some one on the board selling electronic ballast and mogal pendant for 75 bucks each but I am not sure what kind of ballasts they are. If you are using a hood you could use a retrofit reflector, but I mentioned the pendant style as it will be a little less heat.

Steve

I thought the PAR of an HQI bulb was considerably higher than a mogul?? Ya, I really like the look of the Giesemann Marine (13K actually :P ). I have never heard of an electronic HQI ballast...? I was going to go with this one:

http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/s..._ID=pfo-bh401q

What about this pendant?

http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/s...ct_ID=pfo-hp8m

Here's J&L Aquatics' 400w mogul based bulb selection (they only have one 400w HQI):

http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/s...ategory_ID=197

[StirCrazy]

Ok, here is my recomendation along the lines you are thinking.

from J&L
this ballast
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/s..._ID=pfo-be250e 177ish

the pendant you picked is fine, I personaly don't like the PFO stuff as it is bulky and there is way better out there for only a little more.

and 250W Megachrome Marine Mogul (13000K) Metal Halide Bulb - Mogul Base 93.ish (buy it from where ever.)
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personaly this would be my pick from sunlight supply
Galaxy™ 250 WattElectronic Ballast 120/240 Volt 902490Metallic Green Anodized Aluminum8.5lbs.$157.95Each

reflector pendant
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/produc...s%3D%26pgi%3D1

and the same bulb as above.

Steve

[Myka]

I have to get to bed, so I'll reply in the morning, but why are you suggesting I go with a 250w instead of a 400w?

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by Myka

I have to get to bed, so I'll reply in the morning, but why are you suggesting I go with a 250w instead of a 400w?

400 is a waist of power, 250 mogals on HQI ballasts and good reflectors, put out more light than 400's, longer bulb life,

Steve