Copperbands Valentine's Day Lovefest - Not

[daniella3d]

I am not a big expert but no one needs to be an expert to see your fish are stressed..duh...

I have one for a few months now and it is fat and healthy. it is not stressed by any fish and no fish in my tank ever harrased it from the begining. I would not have tolerated this.

I do not tolerate aggression in my tank. It surely can be done to put a yellow tang in with a copperband but there are ways to do it. yours seem that it harrassed your previous copperband and will most probably do it again (very predictible). The proper way to do it is to introduce the yellow tang AFTER the copperband has had a chance to acclimate, like one month after.

My copperband is now with a niger trigger and both eat side by side when I put a mussel. Acutaly it is the trigger that showed the butterfly that a mussel was food. There is no competition for food at all and my copperband gets his white worms a few times per day and I feed it with a pipette. He's totaly rotten spoiled but I love that fish.

The only yellow tang I ever had ended up killing my mandarin so I sold it long before I got the copperband because he would have killed that one too.

Copperband are hard fish to keep. They are sensitive (you can lough now) and have a sweet personality. It,s already hard to keep them in good health with a perfect setup, never mind having them harrassed by other fish and putting 2 of them in competition together in a too small aquarium.

When I got my copperband it was only skin and bone. It was infested with flukes and was breathing very fast. Was only eating about 3 PE mysis per day. It was really on its way out. I fatten him up with white worms and that took about 10 days, did a 4 weeks quarentine and on week 3 and 4 I treated it with prazipro. It was not an easy task to get him back to health and any fish harrasing or fighting it would have meant a failure for sure. When it was in quarentine it was alone, with no stress, until it was fat and healthy again. I did not even treat him for flukes until I felt he was strong enough and fat enough (prazipro cut off appetite).

what tank did you see with more than one copperband?? petshop bare tank? very large tank? Maybe some copperband could get along together but hey...yours are fighting and obviously they wont be ok together. Seem easy enough to see.

If you want to read my story and read the reply and see how hard they are to keep:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=71617

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Daniella, since you seem to be the big expert on this forum about Copperbands, I would like to know more about your experience.

How many have you owned, and how long have they lived? How did they do once you put them into your main display tank? Were they bullied at all, and were they able to successfully compete for food with the other fish. Did you ever keep a Yellow Tang with a Copperband?

I have seen other display tanks with Yellow Tangs and Copperbands, and they all seemed happy, so I know it can be done. But it couldn't have been all peace and love, right at the introduction. And I have seen tanks with more than 1 Copperband.

Reef Pilot

[daniella3d]

yes I know and beleive me that I feel like a "Bi***" saying all these things (I am not like that) but it does upset me to see such thing and I could not just watch without saying my opinion about it. I don't know why it upset me so much..it's not my fish after all. Maybe I just love my butterfly too much so I get emotional when watching this video.

I just hope it turn out well.

Originally Posted by reefwars

so lets all be open minded and offer advice that will help (not that you havent because you have offered great advice) if theres a problem then lets not judge and label people "fish abusers" lets help solve the problem and help as best as we can


there are no tang police or copper police merely people who are concerned for our scaley friends and alot of times a kind word of advice will go along ways where as putting down peoples practises will just get your advice ignored.


ummmmm so lets all be open minded and do what we do best which is advise and pls dont take things to heart and get mad it really doesnt help but a positive attitude will go on and on and on and on

[Reef Pilot]

Daniella, I read your thread about your Copperband purchase. Sounds like you have had him for less than 2 months, which is certainly not a lot of experience with these fish. Sounds like he had a tough time too, and having to go through all that medication.

But I will give you credit for trying something new, the white worms, to get him eating again. Though not sure of the longer term effects of feeding these to SW fish,and hope you continue to get him converted over to other foods as well.

I have both of mine now eating freeze dried Mysis shrimp enriched with vitamins, as well as other frozen and fresh foods including clams. And they are really going after the food with gusto, no tentative bites. They stuff their mouths until they can't swallow anymore, and bits are sticking out the sides as they try to force it down.

On the behavior side with mine, I watched them quite a bit yesterday, and the bickering through the divider has almost totally stopped. There were a couple attempts by the smaller one on the left to start something, but the bigger one does not react now.

What is really interesting though, is how much they act in tandem. When one goes to the top looking for food, they other one goes up too, to have a look. And if one is hunting on the bottom, they other is too. When I come into the room, both come to the front of the glass to greet me. And sometimes they are both just sitting quietly on each side of the divider, like they are just hanging out together. Also, if one gets scared for some reason, if I make an unexpected movement or something, and goes and hides, the other does the same.

As I said before, I think this tandem behavior has helped the smaller one to convert over to new foods. Monkey see, monkey do, really works.

Again, not advocating having 2 Copperbands, but thought this behavior is really interesting. I am wondering if maybe I have a male and a female. If peace continues for a while again, I may just try removing that divider again to see what happens. Of course, I can put it back in a blink if it is doesn't work out.

Reef Pilot

[Duffer2]

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

I have seen other display tanks with Yellow Tangs and Copperbands, and they all seemed happy, so I know it can be done. But it couldn't have been all peace and love, right at the introduction. And I have seen tanks with more than 1 Copperband.

Reef Pilot

Currently have a Yellow Tang and a Copperband hanging out peacefully in my 120. The Yellow kicked the crap outta the copper for 3 days. He then got placed in the sump for 3 days, brought back in, and now everyone gets along just fine. Copperband will be 2 years old in captivity next month.

[daniella3d]

How long I have my copper is a bit irrelevant in that situation. It is very easy to see that your fish are stressed in that video. My copperband was for about a month at the reseller, then I have it for about 2 months. Prazipro is not hard on a fish, it is even reef safe. I used it in my reef frag tank and nothing was affected. The flukes are hard on a fish.

The problem was not that he was not eating, but he was eating too little, just 3 to 4 mysis per day. It seem that copperband need a lot of food to be at their top health. They should really have that full fleshed fat pad at the top if they are healthy.

the white worms are quite fat but the important thing is not to overfeed and to give a variety of food. Mine does not care for mysis and will only eat it if he's totaly starving. You are lucky if yours accept dry food, mine would not.

I will not get him converted to anything else, as I tried many times and he does not care for anything else. Starving him to get him to eat something else will not work either as he does not mind getting very skinny and eating only to bearely survive when he does not like the type of food he's offered. That's why he was so skinny on mysis when I first got him...he was only eating just to stay alive. You can bring a horse to the water but you can't force it to drink.

So mine is very finicky eater..hard to keep and maintain, but I still love that fish and I am doing what it takes to give it a good life.

I don't understand if you fish eat so much, why are they still skinny after 3 weeks? They should be fat by now eating that much? Maybe they have internal parasites and you should treat them. Mine expealed a 6" worm when I treated him with prazipro. if fish eat a lot and still are skinny, then something is not right. Either they have internal parasites or they have been cougth with cyanide and are waisting away.

My yellow tang was skin and bones when I got him and after 3 weeks of good food he was fat as they can be, so that,s strange.

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Daniella, I read your thread about your Copperband purchase. Sounds like you have had him for less than 2 months, which is certainly not a lot of experience with these fish. Sounds like he had a tough time too, and having to go through all that medication.

But I will give you credit for trying something new, the white worms, to get him eating again. Though not sure of the longer term effects of feeding these to SW fish,and hope you continue to get him converted over to other foods as well.

[Reef Pilot]

Well, I wouldn't call mine fat, but they are noticeably filling in on the sides, and the stomach area is no longer sunken like when I got them from the fish shop. Pretty well all Copperbands I've seen in the fish shops are on the skinny side.

I make a point of not overfeeding to ensure that no uneaten food can rot in the aquarium. Also, I like to keep them a bit hungry and it helps when trying to get them onto new foods. So the first week, it was just small portions of frozen Mysis, then the 2nd week got them eating bits of clam, and just a few days ago, started them on the freeze dried food . They are definitely eating a lot more, and more often now than the first 2 weeks. So I do beleive they are well on the way to better health and vigor.

Their behavior has changed too, in that they are less timid, more eager at feeding time, and that bit of aggression that you saw in the video was a good sign too. Fish in the wild experience that all the time. If they are strong and healthy, they do not hesitate to defend their territory, or fight to establish their place in the pecking order. What you don't want to see is a fish that can't get away or has to hide in a corner. That type of harassment is definitely stressful.

As for parasites, I have not seen any evidence of that. I was watching very closely for signs of Ich or Velvet, but have not seen any spots, the fins are clear, and no flashing or head shaking. So I have not used any medication. As for internal parasites, might still be possible, and may not know for some time. But as long as they seem healthy, I am certainly not going to throw in any medication.

Also, today I noticed that an Aiptasia is missing on the left side where the smaller guy is. Actually, I can't find any Aiptasia at all on his side of the divider. So not sure it that one moved away somehow on his own or the Copperband ate him. Did not see him do it, though. Have a few rocks with Aiptasia on the other side, so will move one over, and see if he goes after it.

Reef Pilot

[Reef Pilot]

Originally Posted by Duffer2

Currently have a Yellow Tang and a Copperband hanging out peacefully in my 120. The Yellow kicked the crap outta the copper for 3 days. He then got placed in the sump for 3 days, brought back in, and now everyone gets along just fine. Copperband will be 2 years old in captivity next month.

Congrats, Dave, on your success with the Copperband. 2 years old is proof enough. Did yours eat Aiptasia?

How did you catch your Yellow Tang? Net won't work for me. I am thinking of trying a trap, but haven't got one, or tried to make one yet.

Reef Pilot

[The Grizz]

Daniella, I think that this bothers you as much as it does me for the simple reason is that CBB don't have a very good survival rate. I had my fist one for 4 months, loved Mysis like it was crack. It would feed right out of my had 2 days after being in my tank. I would feed him 2-3 times a day just to make sure it was eating. All Mysis I feed in soaked in Garlic Extreme and they love it.

But them one day for what ever reason it decided to stop eating anything, just like most do. There are some that have had extremely great success with CCB but after trying 2 of them I will no long bring on home and do feel that they should be left in the big blue.

Until there is an ORA CBB I will Never attempt to keep one.

Reef Pilot, I hope you have a couple CBB that will survive in the home aquarium. Best of luck trying to keep 2 of them in the same tank but I have a gut feeling that you might have to rehome one of them before they kill each other.

[reefwars]

im gonna take a different approach then all the higher morals here and offer advice instead of lecture lecture lecture.......as most who comment here dont practise what they preach.......

my best advice is to work slowly not to add anymore fish and once they are settled in remove the damsel. i love the saying monkey see monkey do and i use it for clowns all the time when it comes to hosting as i find sometimes seeing another clown host a nem will get others to try as well....fish arent born by themselves and get alot out of what they "see"


try making the eggcrate smaller if they can get their nose all the way through so as not to be able to touch each other yet.


try adding moonlights to ease some tension in the dark at night


after the rock you have in there has been there for a while switch it over with the odd new piece from your display so they dont get bored grazing the same rock



personally i see no harm so far and it would seem to me your in control of the situation keep researching and constant watch on their behaviors ,study them at night and early in the morning to get their full behavior patterens. do the usual and keep your refuge clean and i would leave them in there untill you have made a solid decision on whther or not they will both go into the display.....



for all those who say " ive bought x amount of coppers now and since they died they are better off left in the ocean" im sure alot of us have lost more of other things like clams,corals,and inverts ......i mean ive lost countless zoas and ive killed off kenyas like no tomorrow , ive been on my 3rd elegance and i know of people who are now losing clams by the handfulls........under those same words all these should be left in the ocean because we lost more than one.

a true fact of this hobby is these animals are very delicate and sometimes we dont quite understand why things happen but their are reasons because they live in the wild so unless we try we will never know......and if by some chance what if the copperband was to go extinct???? would be nice to kow that we could help maintain numbers with captive bred


at one time all these things belonged in the ocean only and as time goes by were constantly finding better foods better equipment and better practises....i dont believe in shutting the door especially after weve tried opening it......would be a waste of life given by these animals to us.


cheers man and im down with the "band"

[reefwars]

.

"Until there is an ORA CBB I will Never attempt to keep one."



if we dont learn to keep them then there will never be