Any red seal fabricators here?

[spit.fire]

I got sponsored as an apprentice by my workplace and started the registration process to find out the first available course for first year has a 2 year waiting list and the closest school that offers the program is 2 hours away from me...


Have any of you challenged any of the years? I'm looking into challenging my first year to get the ball rolling a little faster but I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not

[WarDog]

I took 1st year Steel Fab 9 years ago at BCIT. Never continued with the program because I ended up working only as a welder. Now I do gasfitting. I remember the course mostly being about Structural drawings, welding symbols, line development and oxy/acetylene cutting. We also learnt basic welding positions, trade math and science and safety/rigging crap. If you have some experience with these things (or fabricating in general) then go get the 1st year BCIT textbook and challenge the test. I doubt the curriculum has changed much. Perhaps also talk to an instructor at BCIT (I remember them all to be pretty helpful). What's the worst that can happen?

[The Grizz]

If you can pull off and challenge the first yr go for it but from what I have seen in my 20+ yrs as a red seal / B pressure fabricator from the endless stream of apprentices that I had to train in the city shops I used to work at they should have taken there first yr and not challenged. Mind you I am in Alberta and things are a little different here.

[kacairns]

Not a fabricator but a red seal carpenter. If other red seal programs are anything like the carpentry I would recommend against challenging as you miss valuable information especially stuff with trades math that having a firm grasp in year 1 helps in every year afterwards as they take that foundation and get progressively harder and harder.

Also from experience most people I have met over the years that challenge, have ended up failing the challenge and not continuing on with the training. With that said most people who are challenging are doing it because they think they are better then they usually are, not due to the long waiting list such as what you're saying. I do recall if you make calls in to BCIT (if that is where you're talking about) to see if spots open up sooner, sometimes you can bump yourself, and sometimes multiple bumps due to people being sponsored by companies and getting fired or losing interest and dropping the course. I've seen some people cut the wait time in half or more that way.

[sirruckus]

its the same everywhere, the welding and fabrication is hurting for quality workers.

if you can read drawings as good as a qualified drafts person and actually know weld symbols and procedures your light years ahead of most senior fabricators now a days.

I assume your referring to BCIT, dive in and challenge it.

[spit.fire]

Originally Posted by sirruckus

its the same everywhere, the welding and fabrication is hurting for quality workers.

if you can read drawings as good as a qualified drafts person and actually know weld symbols and procedures your light years ahead of most senior fabricators now a days.

I assume your referring to BCIT, dive in and challenge it.

Not gonna lie, I see a lot of red seal guys that IMO shouldn't have it. Hard to find anyone now adays that does quality work

[The Codfather]

Originally Posted by spit.fire

Have any of you challenged any of the years? I'm looking into challenging my first year to get the ball rolling a little faster but I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not

Heres my opinion, while I'll agree with what the others said, I would like to explain why I would not challenge. I am a line instructor at NAIT and have been for the last 10 years. I've seen my share of apprentices over that time, and saying that, I can safely say that the majority that do challenge any specific year, do seem to struggle a bit further down the line.
Could you challenge and pass? Im sure you could, if you have the motivation and the ability to get some outside help, Im sure it would be quite easy. The problem that I see with this is, some of the basic skill and theories that we teach in the earlier years will not be learnt, or learnt properly. There are a lot of good journeymen out there, people that have been out in the field for years and could give you all sorts of tips and tricks on how to get things accomplished.
The problem is, those good journeyman are often hard on apprentices, they need/want an apprentice that knows what to do and when. Now I'll agree that it is/was our job to help train, but if I got a green second year with me, he had better know what a second year is supposed to. If he didn't, I had no use for him.
Im a multi-ticketed journeyman, and I thought I was good at what I did. But it wasn't until I started instructing for NAIT, that I realized there was a lot more to the trade than what I knew or in some cases thought I knew. This is the bottom line. There are some things you just cannot learn in the field, and this is what the trade schools are for. You will learn a lot from a good instructor.
Hope what I said makes sense.
Thanks,
Bob

[The Codfather]

Originally Posted by spit.fire

Not gonna lie, I see a lot of red seal guys that IMO shouldn't have it. Hard to find anyone now adays that does quality work

I see this on a daily basis. Because of the high demand here in Alberta, the quality of apprentice has dropped, and not just a bit, a lot.
We used to have a very high success rate on the red seal, I'd say between 80-90 percent pass rate. Over the last 5 years or so, Im sure that has dropped to 50-60 percent.
Industry has dictated what is acceptable, they need people on site. So if you can fog a mirror, and pass a drug test, you have a job. The quality of apprentice, even new journey boy has drastically dropped.

[sirruckus]

Originally Posted by spit.fire

Not gonna lie, I see a lot of red seal guys that IMO shouldn't have it. Hard to find anyone now adays that does quality work

Pretty much half the red seal people we have interviewed didn't make it past the weld test, the other half are just ok. People over exaggerate credentials for welding abs fabrication, you don't need it to make top dollar if your employer needs skilled men. On the other hand is your plan on something like Alberta, you don't need to be good necessarily, just have a ticket.

[Ross]

Originally Posted by sirruckus

if you can read drawings as good as a qualified drafts person and actually know weld symbols and procedures your light years ahead of most senior fabricators now a days.

X100!!

I agree, take all the classes that you can "safety/rigging crap" included. After all it's your ass in the sling, so to speak, when things go sideways your and your pulling a night shift working alone.
Confined space entry and rescue, fall protection, h2s alive, first aid, etc etc. Learn em.

And now for my soap box rant of the day...
If you don't understand a drawing, ASK! Phones work both ways.
Please don't substitute materials because you have something in stock.
Two 1/2" plates nicely bevel welded around the perimeter is not as strong as 1" plate.
G40.21-44w plate isn't interchangeable with QT100... etc etc
I'm not defending incompetent designers, but at least come to a common understanding of what is needed and what can actually be made BEFORE welding not after a failure.
Don't be afraid of those that sit behind Cad and Calculators all day.