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#61
10-17-2013, 04:36 PM
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The media will scare people to sell their stories and politicians will scare people to get votes. The best way to combat that fear is education and to call them on things that are just not true. That is all. 
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Mitch 
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#62
10-17-2013, 04:49 PM
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I believe in creating more wealth/assets for everyone to share. That helps the poor and improves everyone's quality of life, including around the world. Of course, there are wars and non democratic dictators/thugs out there that will thwart that. That is in direct contrast to some who focus more on dividing up assets and redistributing wealth. Another way to look at it, is instead of just slicing up the pie, is create a bigger pie. If we don't grow our wealth and assets, we have less to give to the poor, and even support our own social services like health and education. I guess that brings us back to corporations. I believe they are the most efficient and effective means to create more wealth and assets for everyone to share. Again, corporations are just a collection of people (or may be individuals) pooling their skills and resources. And competition is what makes corporations most productive. The bad ones just don't survive, unless they get some kind of protection or help from govts. And just to be clear, I don't believe that everyone should be working for a corporation (whether large or as an individual). I do believe we also need govt services, including some research and development. And civil service is indeed an admirable career choice and profession. But there needs to be an affordable balance, that in the end supports overall growth and improved quality of life for everyone. That's what I am trying to say.
__________________
Reef Pilot's Undersea Oasis: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...d.php?t=102101 Frags FS: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...d.php?t=115022 Solutions are easy. The real difficulty lies in discovering the problem.
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#64
10-18-2013, 03:10 AM
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I agree with may of the points being made, and disagree with many. Some things that I find to be constantly obstructing a more productive and more sustainable humanity seem to be unmentioned.
I don't think anyone mentioned the super rich using tax havens, which exist just as much in the USA and in Canada. This is an effective strategy for dodging taxes that is not an option to anyone making anything under several million per year. For example if you use an iphone: http://www.forbes.com/sites/leeshepp...e-avoid-taxes/ I totally have to agree with any negative sentiment around corporate money in politics. Political donations made by corporations are almost never, if ever, neutral and once again take away from the idea of politics creating what is best for the people of the country and reinforces the idea of doing what is best for their corporate sponsor so they can make lots of money and donate again next election cycle. One idea I had to try and rectify this system is to peg all MP's , MLA's, senators, the PM, and other non essential representatives of the people of Canada to the average Canadians wage and give them a pension that also is equal to the average private market compensation. Its really not that hard for me to imagine an almost overnight 360 in Canadian politics after something like that was implemented. Obviously this is not a prefect solution but it just might be better then what we do now putting out elected officials into the top 20% of income earners in Canada and wondering why 80% of us end up slowly loosing what made Canada and America so great in the first place. One point that was made I don't think I could ever agree with is money being evil. Money might be able to be used for evil, but I think it comes back to the guns don't kill people, people kill people argument in a heck of a hurry. The best definition for money I have ever heard, and I cannot logically disprove this in my mind, is a unit to represent and facilitate the transfer of energy. I think anyone on this message board would be able to agree from their own hobby experience that the transfer of energy in biological systems is a basic fundamental for any type of biological system to work. Human society being a heavily biologically rooted system also requires energy transfers to be made at an incredible pace, especially in the fast world of the internet.The transfer of energy itself is neutral, however I will agree that energy itself can be used for a multitude of negative effects on society. This positive or negative effect is almost totally depended on the circumstances and mind frame of the people or person conducting where and how energy flows and not in the conducting system its self. In my mind if the logical continuation of the all money is bad because you can do bad things with it argument is: Now all stores are bad because some of them sell bullets sometimes and sometimes bullets kill people. So just remeber money as we know it is a relatively new system to humanity and our ancestors, and like any type of evolution just because it starts out ridiculous and inefficient, that does not mean in any way it is a bad idea. Dry and boring to most I really enjoyed listening to Friedrich A. Hayek discuss his ideas about economics. The Life & Thought of Friedrich Hayek Economics a very long and confusing subject and to steal a line from Jon Stewart if you read a few things about economics and make blankets statements like "money is bad" that says much more about the kind of person you are then ever will about the point you are really trying to get across. I really enjoyed Bill Gates rules. Thank you for sharing. One point that I either missed or was simply missing is the strange graduated income tax that exists now. I knew about this subject before but the one thing that really cemented this idea in my head was Rich dad poor dad's Robert T. Kiyosaki talking about the income tax structure in our country. I think Jon Stewart also sums it up best when he asks is investment and corporate income worth more to our countries prosperity then normal manual labor? If so lower the corporate tax rate and keep capitol gains taxes low, but it comes at a very heavy cost of investment that could have otherwise come from the pockets of normal every day schmoes like me. Now to something completely off topic and positive: This is a amazing desertification reversal projects Allan Savory: How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change http://www.savoryinstitute.com/ And I thought I would add in this weird debate. When i read the title the first time I just said WTF?!?!? and afterwards was very surprised by the content: How Much Government Is Necessary?" Debate - Part 1 More thinking positive: http://www.corbettreport.com/episode...ng-anastrophe/ Last edited by FitoPharmer; 10-18-2013 at 03:23 AM.
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#65
10-18-2013, 06:52 AM
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#67
10-19-2013, 03:39 PM
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Very good thread!! It's nice to know there are others out there with open minds and the ability to scrutinize things that are unclear or unfair. This is the only way to make forward movement as humans IMO. Otherwise we are simply brain dead zombies.....for some, the zombie apocalypse is already here and has been for sometime
 Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free
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#68
10-19-2013, 04:29 PM
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We all think that we have open mind, but only like-minded people will agree LOL. You think what You know is true, I think what I know is true.... But what is the REAL truth? We will never know with today's system. JMTCW I guess my main goal was achieved in planting a good conversation seed... This is good.
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#69
10-23-2013, 06:45 PM
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__________________
Reef Pilot's Undersea Oasis: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...d.php?t=102101 Frags FS: http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/sho...d.php?t=115022 Solutions are easy. The real difficulty lies in discovering the problem.
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#70
10-25-2013, 02:27 AM
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Response to any idea is always voluntarily, don't have to if you don't like it. Just because someone has different view does not mean she or he deserves an attack from others. Attacking free will, open mind and free thinking is easy to do, but what is the point? I don't mean you personally, just in general point of view. If this thread is not interesting then why participate? I respect opinions of others, but would also like to be respected. Honestly i don't like personal questions that is why i did not answer it, sorry. But if you insist i probably make more than you would guess. Don't know what you wanted explained though? why i am so strange? This "do for a living" goes back to my point that humans have to pay for living. All other creatures are free in that regard because; Fish, Lion, Bird or a Gazelle even though they have to adapt and survive they don't have to make money for being on this planet, don't have to go to work. Don't have to pay for a meal. They are truly free to do what they want. You can kill them, or train to do tricks, but you can not make them be slaves willingly. And well, if you have read that far thank you for that. cheers.
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