Warning to Profilux Users

[sphelps]

This is not an anti-profilux campaign, from the start here my goal was very clear to make others Profilux users, many of which I consider friends, aware of what I believe to be an issue. However I have no control how others choose to use this information. I have provided only fact or exactly what I was told by support staff to which I can only assume to be fact.

To come here and instantly state my intentions being only to damage Profilux clearly illustrates Profilux owner failed to even read the first post of this thread. It's also insulting to a customer who has been with Profilux virtually from the start and at times aiding in many sales, setup and support. Be aware I also received comments from support staff that I found insulting however these have since been removed and even my posts on the support forum were edited which may have made my comments look overly full of frustration while the only real frustration came from first being insulted and the issue being shrugged off as user error. In addition I can conclude all Profilux staff has failed to even fully understand the issue as despite my numerous attempts of stating reasoning for my max on time it's continuously blamed as an issue. Top off water is added slowly, 10min has prematurely set off alarms in the past on summer days, 20min is a perfectly reasonable number given how my system operates. Increasing flow rate and decreasing on time will do absolutely nothing in regards to this issue. While support staff claims to attempting to propose solutions, in my eyes their goal seemed more related to pointing blame which is not a solution. If you're looking for an example of an actual solution I posted one in this thread.

In regards to a float sensor, again I've said numerous times, I don't care. I found it alarming that such things can expire which is I pointed it out as one of the issues people should be aware of. The fact the owner of the company calls this complete nonsense and then reverts back stating otherwise after discovering what support staff has stated is rather amusing. Also be aware support staff strongly felt the use of stored sensor was a clear issue and the key to whole failure, not something they just had to say because in extremely rare cases it could happen. Also note according to GHL sensor is 4 years old while I purchased it approximately 2 years ago. I have no intention of getting retailers involved but just be aware obviously inventory of such devices are not controlled despite what support staff suggests. At the very least adding a date of manufacture that the rest of the world can understand might not be a bad idea.

In regards to the real issue I'm glad revisions are being made which is what I wanted. It's obvious without such a thread nothing would have been done. Again I have no intentions of destroying Profilux reputation or boycotting nor do I have interest in compensation or warranty replacement.

My initial attempts on the profilux support forum were to first find out out if what I believe to be an issue is related to perhaps just a firmware bug or perhaps just something only relating to my device alone. If this was not the case I thought pointing out some issues would be in the best interest of everyone and my hopes were profilux staff would take this more seriously and at least notify both the public and the owner of the company. As I suspected they did neither hence why I left that site and came here. I also wanted a reason to why something as critical as an error alarm can be so easily reset, obviously there is a reason for this as the the developer has now stated yet I still wait for it. If the reason is sound stating it would justify it's existence perhaps turning what I consider a flaw into a feature I just wasn't aware of.

As a professional engineer I have obligations towards public interest in all aspects of my life, not doing my best to make the public aware of this goes against not only these ethical obligations but also my personal beliefs.

[Aqua-Digital]

I am so sorry to read your reply and I am sure just like myself you want a conclusion, my only reason for reply is to highlight a very important point that seems to be the most frustrating for you.

You mention we did nothing to highlight your concern to GHL. This is not correct as we point out above. We listened to you and we immediately informed GHL. I am happy to forward you our email to GHL.

From there GHL has posted on here and reported to us they will look into an option being implemented.

Originally Posted by sphelps

As I suspected they did neither hence why I left that site and came here.

From our forum as a reply

Originally Posted by aqua_digital

To date we have never had a single issue with this (please check all forums for any related cases for reasurance) but I will of course and as always pass on your concerns.

Originally Posted by aqua_digital

In regards to vunerability, although this is not assurance to you, this is the first ever reported case we or GHL have had in 11 years, as typically as system does not need such a long top off period, but as I first stated I have already passed your feedback onto GHL and you are welcome to do the same on the German support forum.

I or GHL do not wish to see your frustration go on and on, we have offered to you help, stated your requested feature update will be looked into. I hope you see our support and efforts as genuine as they are.

[Seriak]

After reading through both posts I have to agree with the OP. He mentioned numerous times that sensors fail and that is a part of life and has no problem with the fact that his sensor failed (Other than the expiry issue or non issue depending on who you are talking to) The real problem is why the alarm gets reset after a power failure. Maybe we should do a poll, but IMO I would want the alarm to remain in memory after a power on/off cycle instead of having it reset. All alarms should have to be reset manually. Now if the majority of other users want it to reset after a power outage, then it should clearly state in the manual that a power failure will reset the alarm. A toggle switch would even be better, so we could choose.

[Aqua-Digital]

100% correct and as above copied parts of the thread these comments were passed onto GHL and most certainly not overlooked.

GHL have also posted here they will look into this.

This is my last post on the subject to save it all getting out of hand. Our support remains personal and direct with the OP from here on.

[Skimmerking]

Originally Posted by Matthias Gross

yes, we will help him, I just need a message (maybe he needs a Mitras or something else)



you must know that nobody from our company was in direct touch with him

I assume the communication was with a retailer or a distributor

Amazing support thank you for your input and I would take a Mitras too. for my RSM 250

[sphelps]

I also have no interest GHL support issues further at this point. Regardless what happened I would like to keep focus the two issues I originally outlined.

1 - Float sensor:
Can we confirm what is required here as I'm still unclear resulting from many different opinions being stated.
Is it the recommendation of Profilux to replace these sensors every two years or not?
Is shelf life an actual issue? I originally assumed I had a clearly defective part which happens no doubt but it's very rare. It was previously suggested even a non defective part can or will degrade if not used immediately from factory.

2 - Auto Reset:
I would still like an answer regarding the reasoning for this especially now as it's been stated there is one due to user request. I see no reason why this can't be posted here but if you insist on posted only on the profilux support site then do so under the thread I previously posted already asking this exact question but be aware I will post response here regardless.
IMO this feature of auto reset would be very specialized, I still cannot see a single reason for it hence my curiosity. It would definitely make more sense to me to have such a feature as option through user programming however the default should not to have such feature active.

In regards to some solutions mentioned numerous times I'd like to make a few comments:

• Email alerts: I don't feel this would overly useful in such a circumstance. First my vacation took place in remote location in another country. I had extremely limited access to internet and constantly attempting to check emails through the day would have ruined the vacation completely. I may have been able to use data roaming on my cell but keeping that active the entire time would have cost more than the resulting damages. Also I have a profilux II not III which I understand has better abilities with web interfaces. From my understanding, with my version a computer would have to connected continuously with the software running. First of all I've had communication errors from regular short interval programming so in no way would I consider this reliable and any power outage would cause the PC to shut down. You would need a dedicated PC with UPS at the very least.
  
• Remote monitoring: Not a solution either, even if I could perform such monitoring if I can checked at some point during the day it would have easily been after a power outage in the brief time before an alarm was re-triggered giving the appearance of things operating normally. In addition even if I can see the ATO alarm has been set I have no way of knowing how severe the issue is. Remember I have no clue about automatic resets at this time. The only way this would be useful is with conductivity monitoring which I actually do have but to assume all profilux users have this rather expensive upgrade is not fare and again having to check on your system so frequently would be considered a nuisance at the very least.
  
• Max on time: Again it's based on flow rate, increasing flow rate and decreasing max on time would produce the same results. The max on time must be long enough to effectively top of the tank in worst case evaporation circumstances. As such repeatedly adding this max amount of top off water within a short time period will cause issues on most systems regardless.

[Aqua-Digital]

Hi

Please email us and we will happily reply to all your questions and concerns.

sales@aqua-digital.com

If you wish to continue your thread on by publishing our reply I am happy for you to do so.

[Slick Fork]

I'm also very curious regarding the sensor and the official word on replacing it. Replacing one that's been subject to a salt water environment for a few years seems pretty reasonable. Having one degrade (maybe decompose is a better word) does not seem reasonable. I have a telephone in my office that is 20 years old, has moved from one end of the country to the other, and was made in China. Works like brand new. If a cheap chinese produced telephone can last through 20 years of abuse, I can't see the reason a simple float switch that's touted as being made of super high quality german parts should degrade in a plastic bag.

If degradation is the case, then GHL absolutely needs to put an easily readable date stamp on the retail packaging so that as a customer when I am buying one I know that it came out of the factory on X date and I can reasonably expect Y amount of time.

FWIW my float sensor sat in the bag in my basement for 3 years before I got around to installing it. Has worked fine now for two years in operation.

It's also very curious that they are moving this out of the public light and insisting on clarifying these things via email only. Given the attention this thread has received, I would've guessed keeping everything out in the public so there's no confusion to be a much better move for PR reasons as well. Refusing to definitively answer some pretty general questions in this thread just doesn't look good.

[sphelps]

So everyone following is aware I have taken the advice of Profilux staff to conduct further discussion regarding these issues through email. This will allow them to respond more effectively and directly to the actual questions rather than trying to run damage support from comments made from other members. Once I have gotten all the answers to these questions and feel the responses are adequate in explanation I will post results.

Until then I suggest you simply be aware of the issues I've outlined and consider the solution I previously posted.

[apexifd]

Now.. I have a question.

How about the Profilux optical switch??? Is there any sort of issue I should know about with the optical sensors??