which shop in calgary is the best in service??

[Quinn]

Originally Posted by saltcreep

You may not need the expertise but the vast majority of the people out there do (like many LFS owners or employees themselves). Take a look at the thread on RC that mirrors this one. Most people there seem to be offended that an employee asks what environment they are putting their purchase into. Obviously some people are above the "inquisition" (not intended for you).

You say that although the collective "we" may not need advise but the majority out there do... I agree... is there an LFS with employees who sit down (or stand up) with a new customer and give them a rundown on the work, costs and requirements involved in this hobby? Also, there is no inquisition when a customer buys livestock. I would love it if there was.

[reefman90]

Hey guys,

Canadian Man, thanks for getting in on the conversation.

I can appreciate that you have not had the best experiences with the fishroom staff of some stores. I myslef have been treatedwithout great consideration while purchasing fish almost everywhere at one time or another. But you have to consider that many of these people have an ample amount of jobs to do. I know that is not an excuse for unkindness, or a lack of politeness, however, think of it this way. How much time do you spend on your tank at home? Think if you had 7 or 8 sytems that are 15 times as big, loaded with fish, and you had to feed, clean, and waterchange all these tanks. AGAIN, this is not an excuse.

However, what time might this have happened? On what day?

I can sorta guess the store, but how busy is it at this time?

Do you think you would have had conversed the same had you gotten to know the LFS employee? Perhaps made an attempt at developing a personal relationship with them? Or if you had developed a personal relationship with them prior to this event?

Could it have gone...

"How about fishing me out a Naso?"

"Sure, nice order eh?"

"Yes, (and or No)"
(Comeon you wouldnt say no...no matter how much you knew them)

"Hows that coral (Goniopora, LOL <<<<----This is a JOKE) doing?"

"Good actually, do you think the Naso will get along with my hippo tang?"

"Ya, shouldn't be a problem, you know, drop by this weekend, cause I am getting a small coral order in and those Blastomussa wellsi are coming in that you wanted"

" Ok, see you on the weekend, < insert name>"

"Take it easy, <Insert name>"

remember this is hypothetical...noit to poke fun CM if I can call you CM. Just a thought.


And ask yourself this...where do you prefer purchasing, Golds or Wais? They have completely opposite sales strategies! All the rest of em just fall somewhere in between.

I have been scrapping through the old threads and have found one thing in common with some of the board members. Saltcreep put it nicely that the most important thing to the cusomer seems to be price. You have this board and the internet, and books, and there are a million channels of information now-a-days. Everything that you want out of a store costs money, and the customer doesnt want to pay for it. I have seen many, many customers walk into a store, and use their so-called "experts" for the info, and then order the product on line b/c it is nice to have the personal selling, but also have the lower price. This is annoying, and would be annoying to anyone in any industry.

I dont know what else to say, my main point in this thread was to say something about developing a personal relationship with your LFS employee...share with each other who you enjoy talking to. People...just go out there and make a friend...make them feel appreciated, and helpful...(provided they have been) and they might be willing to do their damdest to get you what you want for the price you want. One other note is that I am not sure what you guys think of rating these stores on your site, but for people just entering the hobby, it can be both helpful and discouraging. I think that saying such bad things about ALL the stores in a certain area could keep people out of the hobby, and that is not a good thing (less friends to be made, lol)


BTW saltcreep, nice to meet you, what is your background in the industry, what kinda tank you got etc...

I will leave with a quote...."I just wanted to be your friend....(I just screwed it up)" From the Cable Guy (on TV while I am typing thought it was humorous)

[aussiefishy]

first of all, thankyou for the intense discussion, hence a very warm welcome to me. haha

i am currently wrking in one of the LFS, and in my eyes though the years, i have seen some things. let's summarize them:

1. price is the most important aspect for customers, not quality... although it is sad, it is so in the market, for the few reefers who have their eyes on quality, it is not enough to support a LFS... businesswise, the decrease profit margin=less care for livestock=more crappy product on shelf for dummy shoppers... it is a vicious circle.

2. to tell you the truth, in the north american market, economy of scale is very important, big stores like JL and big al's get dry good/equipment for alot cheaper. a small LFS are very hard to compete. it is not profitable.

3. usually what you see is this, a start out LFS would sell livestock to build up capital, and load up dry goods. the thing is, when price is low, profit shrinks yet sales figure not drop... why? because there are alot of people out there willing to take chances on un-quarantine, sick fishes and inverts... in a business POV, the livestock grade is indifferent for them because shipping charge is constant, i mean, a sick fish shipping is the same as the good fish, so owner will try their best to sell every daXn thing in order to at least break even.

4. as all of you guys know, if you guys can mail order/group order stuff through the internet from big companies, there remain no markets/demand for LFS to order in stuff, and when they do, the cash are sunk. the interest can be otherwise earned (oppotunity cost of stocking)are charged in the price tag, therefore you see a rise in price of dry goods in LFS.

what i wanna say is, by mail order stuff, you destroy demand, and supply WILL shrink. this is a lost to reefers because there will be no bulbs at your tank tonight if yours in burnt in the morning. because LFS see no need for them to stock... one might say, i can buy 2... but is that the right way to go?? can't your money be better well spent?? becasue there are no demand for stocking, now all reefer has to incur oppotunity cost of stocking stuff themselves.

this is the story of dry goods. how about livestock?? do you stock "spare" livestock? think about it guys! the LFS is important, they are the ones to take the risk to order the animals, and sustain any lost it might occur.... i surely will not put whatever stuffs in the mail order into my tank, why keeping stuff you don't like??

and to all of reefers out there, i feel no remorse to name LFS for their bad practice, they should be responsible for their own action. this is why this forum is here.

as you can see, i am a economics junky., it is what i do.

i open this topic to say, sometimes employees have different intentions to storeowner, i think my head is very clear. and i am rewarded with loyal customers who only come to the store when it is my shift.

and lastly, by no means i am targeting anyone. i am just giving my thoughts.

Cheers

[MitchM]

Originally Posted by aussiefishy

as you can see, i am a economics junky., it is what i do.

Nice to see you here. Welcome.

I agree. MO kills the LFS, and it's an unfair comparison.

Good, clean discussion. I hope it keeps up!

What do you guys think the future is, then, for the LFS? Is the industry going to be reduced to a few large stores in major centers that supplement their walk-in business with mail orders? Where will that leave current LFS's in medium sized cities? What kind of service are we here in Calgary going to be left with, for example.
Mail order only? I hope not. It's up to the individual reefer to educate themselves and work with the LFS to keep a happy medium, I think.

Mitch

[Delphinus]

Originally Posted by Carpentersreef

It's up to the individual reefer to educate themselves

Yup.

[Quinn]

I think it is absurd to say that LFS' will eventually dissapear. Chapters/Indigo Online and Amazon are huge, but yet Coles (yes, I know, part of Chapters) and other independent booksellers continue to thrive. Aquarium Illusions in Edmonton is hands down the best LFS in this province (a few small issues aside), and you can't tell me they don't make money, considering that they are continually expanding, adding, modifying, renovating.

The point is, the "bad" LFS' can defend themselves all they want, but in the long run they are hurting themselves, and more importantly, the hobby. Yesterday's National Post had a small column on Finding Nemo and its effect on the global fish trade - obviously, the theme of the movie is "aquariums baaaad" (a la Napster), yet thanks to its success, the popularity of saltwater aquaria is skyrocketing. PETA and other environmentalist groups are already on our case. The LFS' with dead or starving fish and uneducated teenagers working there are not helping anything. Retailers are on the front lines and have the power to dissuade the unprepared customer from jumping into the hobby. I think us hobbyists on Canreef do our part, in a fairly objective fashion. When will the LFS' start doing theirs?

I have a feeling someone is going to break out the whole "LFS' are in business to make money, it's hard to make it as a small businessperson". If LFS' want to take that stance, then they will never escape the stereotypical view of LFS' that seems so prominent in Calgary.

[Bob I]

Originally Posted by teevee

I have a feeling someone is going to break out the whole "LFS' are in business to make money, it's hard to make it as a small businessperson". If LFS' want to take that stance, then they will never escape the stereotypical view of LFS' that seems so prominent in Calgary.

If you would check the previous posts, you will see that is exactly the point I made. In addition I said that we Canreef members are a very small part of our local LFS's business, and are unlikely to make a very large impact on their sales practices.

[Buccaneer]

If it's price and only price we are talking about then even the " big " stores here in Calgary refuse to compete ... the VHO bulb example was a large store ... I gave them every opportunity to earn the biz and they turned me down flat ( did not try to meet halfway ... and box of the bulb was really ratty looking which tells me that NOBODY wants to pay those prices either so I told the guy helping me to put the dusty bulb back with the other dusty bulbs )

As far as corals ... we just dont see really nice acros very often and most stores either wont carry them or dont offer frags or charge absolutely outrageous prices for average pieces.

I am sure that everyone on this board would pay more to have quarantined fish locally.

As to bulbs ... are you suggesting that getting MH bulbs from Venki at less than 50 buck per bulb is harming the pet stores who want close to 200 per bulb and online around 125 ? ... I would guess that if they wanted to be compettitive they could have sourced out the bulbs from China just as Venki did and had people from all over MO from them too.

This is all a catch 22 in that if a LFS was to get compettitive then they would get all the biz going to MO and with increased volume be able to offer more selection.

Food for thought

Cheers

[Bob I]

[quote="Carpentersreef"]

Originally Posted by aussiefishy

as you can see, i am a economics junky., it is what i do.

Mail order only? I hope not. It's up to the individual reefer to educate themselves and work with the LFS to keep a happy medium, I think.

Mitch

I think Mitch is correct here. All we( who are only a small part of the Calgary LFS trade( (especially the combination stores)), can do is tell the retailers that there is competition for them by way of the mail order retailers. If they value our business they will make changes. If they don't care, they will go their merry way doing business the way they have always done.

[Bob I]

[quote="Rasta"][quote="reefman90"]

Originally Posted by reefman90

When I worked at a store, I can remember certain customers, ones that were more on the friend side of the equation, coming in, after they have proved me wrong in something that I made sure I was not giving them a definate answer (grammar? my high school english teacher is rolling over in her grave... fixed ). Anyways, they would come in to tell me I was wrong. It is good to learn together, and I have learned many things over the years from customers. ...

Actually it is not fixed, Fixing it would correct the spelling to definite