|
|
|
#41
12-12-2008, 07:04 PM
|
|||||
|
|||||
Quote:
Doesn't mean you have to agree, or that you have to leave the hobby, it just means that in my mind a lot of your comments don't exactly mesh with the hobby. I just don't understand how you enjoy the hobby with all these internal conflicts/struggles you seem to be having. Fish die... but you seem to take it hard, or you did with Eddy, but it's going to happen again. Are you going to get a memorial tattoo for every time?? Your taking fish that are from the huge ocean and shoving them in a little glass box for your own personal enjoyment... the hobby is one that sources from selfishness I guess everyone has different lines for how selfish we can be but it seems like your trying to play both sides. "I don't think large fish should be caught there should be laws but... I have a big puffer in my tank that's "so special" in part because of his size ... but I saved him from the tiny store tank" "Take him back"... "What? Never... why so some else can buy him? I wont make them suffer by making such a ridiculous purchase." Your encouraging a market that you supposedly don't like by keeping a big fish... take it back and let the guy sit on it if it's so unethical... if someone else buys it at least your conscience can be clear. Oh wait... now he's not that big for your tank now... well neither are some of these other fish your trying to make laws about when they're in other peoples tanks. But right now all I hear is you complaining about a problem that your currently contributing to. Your enormous posts simplified are you battling between your selfishness and your guilt. Find your line quickly or pretty soon vendors wont be selling you the fish you want b/c ur bashing them afterward... even though you'd do it all over. Good thing I'm not a lfs owner cause I'd reserve the right to refuse you business, but $20 says you'll be back to a lfs before the months end. Last edited by superduperwesman; 12-12-2008 at 07:08 PM. 
|
|
#42
12-12-2008, 07:12 PM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Quote:
|
|
#43
12-12-2008, 07:23 PM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
I agree with Wes and I stand by my previous statement that we hobbyists are to blame.
If you're against bringing in large fish or certain species of fish, despite what you might think, buying them doesn't help the situation. You're only supporting the exact cause you're against. In order to make a difference you should not purchase the fish you're against bringing in. That way the retailer is more likely to sit on the fish and yes it might die but the retailer will loose money and might take further efforts to avoid bringing in the same fish. By purchasing the fish you may think you're helping but you're not, the retailer now thinks that the fish sold and he could sell another. Simple supply and demand, the theory of any business.
|
|
#44
12-12-2008, 07:27 PM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
I know mistakes are made and that cannot be helped. I don't frown upon that at all. I also don't blame Danny for my fish. He has a whole store to run, and I cannot bear my puffer's liking of sushi on him. I just wish I knew there was a chance. At least I know he is eating...
 I am really happy about the new puffer I hate the holidays but now I have something to look forward to. At least I have some time off to watch my tank and get some work done around this house. Quote:
|
|
#45
12-12-2008, 08:10 PM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
We all learn from our mistakes and grow from them. I didn't pick my puffer due to his size, but his health and movement. I love a good arguement so keep it coming. I am not on any high horse, but now know what I know. My puffer is not special due to his size, he is special because he is an awesome fish. I did take Ed very hard since he is the reason I went to bigger and better. I wanted that fish to have a big tank and room to swim. When I moved into this house I almost killed him half a dozen times due to my lack of knowledge. It is a shame I finally am here with this tank which was for him, and he died three days short of making it into it. I have a memorial tattoo for my Rottweilers, but have not even considered a fish. Maybe I will get a reef done on my back some day, thanks for an awesome idea. I appreciate it. It would be spectacular to say the least.
 We live in a throw away society and always just "get another one". Perhaps if we think about why things happen and don't just get something to replace another we would be in a much better place with this world. Yes I am selfish for being in this hobby, yes I want a reef in this house. However I will not contribute to the unethical treatment of animals if possible. I am not perfect by all means but I want to always better myself by lessons I have learned. Of course I will be back to a LFS, just not that one. I unknowingly bought a fish that was larger because he was caught as an older fish. I did not even consider it until I saw him hunting like a wild animal hunts. My bad, not the puffer's. Whats done is done... It happened for a reason, and I learned a big lesson for it. I won't bring him back to the store now since I picked him and will deal with it. Just because I am a retard does not mean the fish should suffer any more stress by being brought back to the store. He is not a piece of clothing, he is a living creature. You can just bet that I won't do it again. Any large mature fish will be a captive raised fish that outgrew his owner's tank. You can bet on it. My next puffer is exactly that, so I learned and did something with my new knowledge on my mistake. I won't be buying any more clownfish, at least not these little false percs. That would be even more selfish on my behalf in the end. I am rehoming them soon. My refugium will be set up tonight and I will go snorkling to catch them and keep them safe until homes will be found. If I get another clownfish you can bet I will be asking what kind I should look into and if they will be safe against my hungry piglet. I do think you fail to understand my point and that is alright by me. It is sometimes hard to convey a message when expression cannot be seen and written word is only there to speak on one's behalf. I am a decent person that is not staring down at anybody, I just don't know better in many aspects of this hobby. As a consumer I have the option to shop where I want to shop. If one place does not work for me, I will go to another. At the end of the day it is me whom has to live with myself. I do take the deaths of my fish seriously because it is my responsibility to keep the safe and healthy. When they die of old age it is one thing, but when they die due to the lack of my knowledge it is my fault. I knew I would open up a can of worms when I started these two different topics, but debating and education in the debate is the best knowledge anyone can glean in life. At least I know I should not feel so badly about certain issues and if I did not bring these topics forward I would be beating myself over it. At least I can relax and enjoy my hobby but still have lines drawn for my own personal ethics on what I think is right. Does not mean everyone needs to do what I do, but at least I feel I made a difference in my world. Quote:
|
|
#46
12-12-2008, 10:00 PM
|
|||||||||||||
|
|||||||||||||
|
Quote:
And it's too late this time but you'll know for next time? But in the mean time everyday you will look into a tank at something that you're against. I just don't understand how you learned this valuable lesson and yet you continue to be a part of it everyday until the fish dies. And if that is going to be a short span you should give him to someone with a bigger tank or put him out of his misery b/c like you say below "I will not contribute to the unethical treatment of animals if possible" And if he lives a long time why not get another one?? Oh right... quality of life. You would never want another one to have the bad life you're about to give this one??? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
 Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Oh ok... you're right you we're ignorant so it's ok... np. To bad we live in "such a throw out society" but lets let people use ignorance as an excuse. But then your mad because there is a market for the exact kind of ignorance you displayed. But now your eyes are opened and you'll never do it again and you want to change the terrible things in the hobby... NO BIG FISH! NO BIG FISH! oh him he's a puffer... cool hey! He's miserable but I decided to keep him anyway. And if he's happy then why you hating on the lfs?? And saying there should be laws against big fish? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I know we can care about the fish we have but at the end of the day if we over emphasis how much we care and how serious the fishes deaths are than we shouldn't have them. At the end of the day we don't take a fishes death that seriously b/c we'll still sacrifice it for food, or for pleasure. Please don't tell me that the food part is a need. Quote:
I guess I'm just trying to help you draw those lines because right now yours looks like this:  Last edited by superduperwesman; 12-12-2008 at 10:15 PM.
|
|
#47
12-12-2008, 10:45 PM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Now you have brought up so many topics the are not really relevant to what I was posting, but that is alright. I see you love a good argument, but I do not have the time to play with you any longer. I am sure you and I could do this for all eternity. As much as I would love to finish this debate it is getting me bored and tired now.
I could go on and on, but just don't have the ambition to do so anymore. It was fun and I am sure we will do it again in the future. I wish I knew how to make a cute little picture too, but sadly, I don't have the skills. You way of thinking will seal the fate of this hobby some day when we are not allowed to buy any captive fish at all, since there will none to buy. I would not have bought my big puffer if he was not available for me to buy. You missed my points entirely, but I can't blame you for that.  Have a b=nice day.
|
|
#48
12-12-2008, 11:46 PM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Quote:
One minute you're saying one thing the next something completely different and contradicting. So basically are you happy with your purchase? Did you think it was the right thing to do? Are you still mad at the LFS? If so why? Do you believe bringing in larger fish is wrong? How so? Where do you draw your ethical line? Seriously I'm really curious, everyone has a different opinion but I'm having difficulty reading yours.
|
|
#49
12-13-2008, 12:18 AM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Quote:
All I did was make sure people understood how horrible of a diet that would be. The you cleared it up but started an argument instead of leaving it at that. Sure taking fish form the ocean is worse than feeding them a bad diet by why would you even go there...you knew that was not my point. I have no problem with fish coming from the ocean or I would not be in this hobby. I think you do an amazing job with your tanks and people respect your opinions. That makes it even more important that you are clear. I did get a PM right after that BTW asking how to feed goldfish to puffers and another asking if it was ok to do. I agree to a point with this posters views on keeping large fish but I have to agree, I couldn't do it myself if I felt quite so strongly about it. My opinion is that there are species that should not ever be in LFS unless someone orders them specially. I also think every other species should be brought in as small as possible and safe. There is generally an ideal size for most species. For example I would say porcs should only be brought in 5" and under. Or...Naso Tangs, again under 5" or so. There is a huge difference between a fish that has be "raised" in a tank and one that has grown in the ocean. The younger the fish, the better they adapt generally. I do not blame LFS for this alone by any means. I said earlier about that large tang that if it sits there and no one buys it, I bet the owner will not bring them in again. I think I said it would be ashame for it to die but it would also save many others...in theory anyways. It all stems form the collectors and lack of collection laws. My father lives in Singapore and dives almost weekly throughout South Asia. I go a few times a year to join him and the **** you see go on down there would probably make most of you feel terrible about how you fish get here. The large fish are the worst to see. Anyways, I do kind of agree that the original poster has a lot to sort out about how they feel about captive fish. This is not the hobby for you if you don't feel most fish are doing well in aquariums. Its a selfish hobby and you have to be ok with that. But I also think some people are being a little harsh with there crazy drawings and all out attack. Im not saying you are though, sphelps.
|
|
#50
12-13-2008, 12:19 AM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Quote:
|
Linear Mode
