Powder blues at J&L - Page 5

Delphinus · #41 03-17-2003, 03:28 PM

Hi Wendell,

What would you suggest as a potential solution? Assuming that there is one, of course, perhaps there is not. But working on the premiss that we would like a sustainable hobby so that we can still enjoy our hobby in 2010 and 2020 and beyond ... what should we do? Eliminate all wild-caught livestock (maybe that will happen anyways?) and the only livestock is captive-prop? I admit I like the sounds of that, although it probably restricts the available diversity quite a bit (perhaps a small price to pay? I don't know.)

saltcreep · #42 03-17-2003, 07:43 PM

MAC (Marine Aquarium Council) is a possible solution, even with it's faults. Some are being addressed at the moment, but there is still a long way to go.

An important factor in all of this is the informed hobbiest. This thread is a perfect example.Putting pressure on LFS and wholesale companies, to not carry items that are difficult/impossible to keep is a start. How about implementing an USL (Unsuitable Species List) for wholesale/LFS to not purchase?

Many captive bred/raised items are available. Unfortunately on the whole these items are more expensive than wild caught. A poll was taken a while ago about this topic and the majority of posters to this board said they would buy CB items even at a premium. This is not the case for the majority of the hobbiest as price ,which was even stated as a major factor for purchases in a previous posting, is the single biggest factor on what they buy and where they buy it.

Who knows?

BCOrchidGuy · #43 03-17-2003, 08:21 PM

One thing to keep in mind as far as hard to keep animals is that some times if the shipper is out of one thing, they ship another. I know my favorite LFS grumbles about that with some of the livestock they get. They order something, perhaps small emperor angels.. (an example nothing more) and they get HUGE ones, the guy who runs the marine section will tell people don't buy it, its going to die, unless I can get it to eat. I guess that is an example to of why captive bred fish are better. As I read through this thread I have come to the realization that my pocket book shouldn't be as much a factor in my purchases as it has been.

On the bright side, I am still looking for a source for affordable captive bred seahorses. I may just have to go to Blaine and have them shipped there.

naesco · #44 03-17-2003, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltcreep

MAC (Marine Aquarium Council) is a possible solution, even with it's faults. Some are being addressed at the moment, but there is still a long way to go.

An important factor in all of this is the informed hobbiest. This thread is a perfect example.Putting pressure on LFS and wholesale companies, to not carry items that are difficult/impossible to keep is a start. How about implementing an USL (Unsuitable Species List) for wholesale/LFS to not purchase?

Wow a chance post and it is going 3 pages with excellent comments from all and no flames
Saltcreep the idea that we can make a difference and put pressure on our suppliers to get cyanide free fish and stop importing and selling fish on a USL is great. It will benefit everyone because we can get healthier fish. New reefers benefit because they wont get stuck with impossible to keep species and cyanide fish.
We can all start right now by ASKING where it came from right after we ask to see it eating.
I would be really interested in the owners of LFS and online stores reaction to these informed reefer questions.

saltcreep · #45 03-17-2003, 11:12 PM

BCOG - A simple solution for your LFS, WRT substitutions, is to simply tell the supplier to stop sending substitutions or they will stop purchasing from them. Or, ask them to only substitute with items they have ordered. Simple solutions. When push comes to shove the almighty dollar speaks for itself.

BCOrchidGuy · #46 03-18-2003, 02:41 AM

After a blank stare from the Manager at my favorite LFS it dawned on me, they didn't say they get cyanide caught fish. An employee at another.. (reputable) store said my favorite ONLY sells cyanide caught fish. When I spoke to the manager today he had a good laugh and then accused me of hiding my blonde roots.... (no offence to any blondes)

My favorite fish store uses the same supplier(s) for their fish as the reputable shop we all love, however it was one of the employees not a manager at the reputable shop that told me about the cyanide caught fish are being sold at my favorite LFS. When I went down stairs to talk to the guy who runs the marine section he almost kicked me out when I asked if he sells cyanide caught fish. Some fancy talking and foot work and he calmed down.

Rumours are easy to spread and start, Hey did you hear, Big Al's buys ****** from ****** and they are known for ******* .

My mistake folks I got confused, I guess I talked to one to many people. So I would like to take this opportunity to say my LFS still is my favorite, strangely enough when the last fellow who ran the marine section left, the prices of the fish went up... I didn't make the connection.

sumpfinfishe · #47 03-18-2003, 04:29 AM

I do agree that such hard to keep fish such as powder blue's should not be sold to a beginner hobbyiest. However! I don't know how many reefers know that ordering fish is no simple task. It's all about availability.
Let's say your a store owner for example, and a customer begs you to order him/her a yellow tang. Maybe after a few weeks of being faxed availability list, you finally see yellow tangs on the list. So you order one for that patient customer and three more for stock. With most suppliers, it's sometimes luck of the draw if you get exactly what you ordered. So what happens if the supplier you faxed back your order too is all out of stock of yellow tangs now-well too late! Most times they will substitute powder blue or another type of tang for the yellow tangs, or manderian gobbies for yellow watchmen gobbies for another example-that's just the way it is!

We should not be so harsh on our LFS

as it's not there fault most of the time-it's the suppliers. That's why it's so hard for stores to find a really good supplier. If I was a store owner I would not want to order a whole bunch of fish that nobody wants to buy-but what happens when my supplier substitutes them by mistake or just wants to get them on his/her hands- then I'm stuck selling them at a sale price because that's all I can do. No, I can't send them back so I have to try and sell them. If you tell your supplier to stop sending you powder blues, then who nows, maybe you will never get sent another tang ever again or he might just add more to your next shippment. So what I'm saying is "it's really really hard for a LFS sometimes to have control over what they recieve in there shippments".

just my opinion, peace all

cheers, Rich

naesco · #48 03-18-2003, 05:08 AM

s/t fishy.
Thanks for your opinion but I agree with Saltcreep.
The buyer is the boss. If the LFS tells the wholesaler no substitutions and they do it the LFS should not be forced to accept it. They should refuse to pay.
We are not talking about substituting one article for another of similar value.
We are talking about substituting a live animal that no body wants and IMO that simply is not acceptable.

EmilyB · #49 03-18-2003, 05:26 AM

When we first got into the hobby, we had an informed person at an LFS. He ordered in for us. He ordered in our LTA, as a matter of fact, which is still here. He did not order in four, just one....

BCOG, is the LFS you speak of where we ran into you? Whose the guy in there who might have been overheard telling newbies "well, everything dies sometime..."

sumpfinfishe · #50 03-18-2003, 02:34 PM

Naesco - all I'm tryiny to say is that it's not always up to the boss(LFS), sometimes s#it happens. S#it happened with the Powder Blue Tangs as well, because I know of three stores that I went to on the weekend that all had Powder Blue Tangs, only one of these stores ordered these fish. One store told me they were overshipped, another told me it was a supplier's mistake, and the last told me that it was suppliers way of selling off fish that were brought in by mistake.

So, the bottom line is, as long as there are fish stores and aquarist then there is bound to be mistakes sometimes. Fish stores and there suppliers are not perfect, and we all make mistakes sometime. I can see writting a bad post about a store if there are making such actions a habbit. However, the case with J&L for example should not be treated to harsh if they don't make a habbit of such actions. Post like this can cause damage for a store, for which the LFS may have been completly not in the wrong.

just my two cents-not worth much