Pet Store Supports Puppy Mills

[Der_Iron_Chef]

Interesting. I never understood the rationale behind the assumption that pet store dogs came from these puppy mills or backyard breeders. Thanks, Brad.

The last few times I've been to these big pet stores, they have dogs in two categories: puppies for sale, and rescued adult animals (they usually have a typed up story behind the animal--where it was found, age, temperment, etc.) I don't see any harm in the latter. Kind of a satellite SPCA...sort of?

I'm curious then, since I'm mostly a cat lover, where do the cats come from, and do cats have the same genetic issues as the dogs do? What about the birds and fish? Reptiles, etc.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by Der_Iron_Chef

I'm curious then, since I'm mostly a cat lover,

We lika ya Drew, so we won't hold that against you

I'm not sure of cats, but I suspect that if PB cats may be in th esame position as dogs. Again, most pet stores only sell gray cats or orange cats, again from often unexpected/wanted litters. They are given to the store for free and sold at a nominal cost. Purebreds again suffer the same fate as dogs. Professional Maine Coon breeders do not sell to pet stores and vice versa.
Birds from stores are mostly wild caught, although the occasional hand fed locally bred birds do make it to the pet stores, mostly from hobbyists that had a try at breeding. Not the same game as dogs and cats.

[Aquattro]

Here is a typical description on buying puppies. This comes from a site I'm currently reading on BCs, but is applicable to all breeds;

"Where should I get my dog?

There are several options, some good, others not so good. If you choose to get an adult dog, you can get one from a shelter, from a Border Collie rescue organization, or from a breeder who is looking for a home for an adult Border Collie. If you decide to get a puppy, you should do some research and find a breeder with a good reputation. Do not buy a Border Collie puppy from a pet store. Although these puppies are adorable, they are generally from puppy mills and are incredibly overpriced. Most people don't realize that they can usually buy a very well-bred, well-socialized, pet-quality puppy with exceptional guarantees from a reputable breeder for less money than they can buy a puppy from a pet store. Pet store puppies have usually been bred for profit with little consideration given to long-term health. They are often prone to many problems, such as epilepsy, hip and joint problems, and early blindness. They are also usually poorly socialized, which means they can grow up to be timid, fearful dogs. Do not even buy from pet stores advertising that their animals are not from puppy mills: no reputable breeder would ever sell puppies to a pet store! You will often encounter the same problems with health and socialization with puppies sold through ads in the newspaper. The best way to find a good breeder is by asking people who already own healthy Border Collies with good temperaments."

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by marie

Backyard breeders and puppymills are not same thing. I have seen some wonderful backyard dogs that have had a litter of puppies that are better socialized and cared for then some reputable breeders puppies.

My ex-wife bred her rottie to make a few bucks from pups. The pups are about 4 years old now, over half of them have hip problems and most of the buyers have called complaining about various other health issues. She solves these issues by hanging up the phone....

I bought an Akita 14 years ago from a reputable breeder for less than the backyard rotties went for. The breeder was there for questions and concerns my dog's entire life, and was even supportive after my dog passed away. If I had encountered genetic health issues, I had a replacement/money back gaurantee...

[findingnemo1]

Originally Posted by reef_raf

U
I'm looking for a Border Collie right now, so I need to check for eye sight issues, hearing problems, hips, etc. I'm looking for an agility/herding dog, so I'm being picky.

Hey if you are looking for an agility dog have you looked into Aussies?
This is our 2nd one and i can honestly say for agility they are awsome. The guy we currently have we got from a breeder near Edmonton who received mom and dad from a breeder in San Diego. Very we'll built dogs. Great agility and very obidient right from the get go.All hips,eyes and elbows are checked and cleared before being sold and they also have a lifetime/replacement medical paid for etc.

And trully he is adorable



But on the flip side to all of that...I have a CKC registered Golden retriever that we drove to Seattle for....Parents had been checked for everything under the sun and sure enough was diagnosed at 6months for hip dysplasia. And 6 months is very early to see this in a dog. So it is to say that even if you test for it and mom and dad don't have it doesn't mean that they won't get it. It all depends on what breed you choose and what they're breed is pre disposed to.

[Aquattro]

[quote=findingnemo1;303596]Hey if you are looking for an agility dog have you looked into Aussies?
This is our 2nd one and i can honestly say for agility they are awsome. The guy we currently have we got from a breeder near Edmonton who received mom and dad from a breeder in San Diego. Very we'll built dogs. Great agility and very obidient right from the get go.All hips,eyes and elbows are checked and cleared before being sold and they also have a lifetime/replacement medical paid for etc.

And trully he is adorable

Ya, I had thought about an ACD, but recent exposure to a couple of red BCs has swayed me in that direction. I have to go with a red because my girlfriend's flyball team has about a million black and whites, and I have trouble telling them apart!!

[Ephraim]

So reef_raf, by your rational, no matter the caliber of a dog breeder and the amount of care the put into producing healthy, happy puppies conforming to breed standards, if they sold thier litter to a pet store they would cease to be a reputable breeder? This one feature will erase all other indications of a good reputation?

Some pet stores may not be paying as much as you would from a reputable breeder, but some do. When you look at the pricing of puppies in *edit*, it should be very evident from an assumption on the markup that the prices this company is paying is the same as what Jimbo would be paying from a breeder.

It also does not make much sense for a company to be adopting puppy milled dogs. Would this not cost much more in the long run. If a pet store was to purchase puppies from a reputable source they would see much less health warrenty problems. This simply makes sense.

[marie]

Originally Posted by reef_raf

My ex-wife bred her rottie to make a few bucks from pups. The pups are about 4 years old now, over half of them have hip problems and most of the buyers have called complaining about various other health issues. She solves these issues by hanging up the phone....

I bought an Akita 14 years ago from a reputable breeder for less than the backyard rotties went for. The breeder was there for questions and concerns my dog's entire life, and was even supportive after my dog passed away. If I had encountered genetic health issues, I had a replacement/money back gaurantee...

Well I never said all backyard breedings were good .
On the flip side of the coin I have a rottie that comes in for a bath every 4 weeks who came from a very reputable breeder who even refused to sell the puppy unless it was fed exclusively raw (I don't agree with that but it shows concern on the breeders part) and the poor dog has the worst case of hip displasia I have ever seen (stage 4?). It is so bad it started showing up before the dog was a year old ( normally a dog is full grown before it even gets tested)

[pandafishowner]

Originally Posted by Ephraim

So reef_raf, by your rational, no matter the caliber of a dog breeder and the amount of care the put into producing healthy, happy puppies conforming to breed standards, if they sold thier litter to a pet store they would cease to be a reputable breeder? This one feature will erase all other indications of a good reputation?

Some pet stores may not be paying as much as you would from a reputable breeder, but some do. When you look at the pricing of puppies in *edit*, it should be very evident from an assumption on the markup that the prices this company is paying is the same as what Jimbo would be paying from a breeder.

It also does not make much sense for a company to be adopting puppy milled dogs. Would this not cost much more in the long run. If a pet store was to purchase puppies from a reputable source they would see much less health warrenty problems. This simply makes sense.

Last I checked, neither *edit* offer ANY warranty on cats or dogs. Their health warranty was limited to birds, small animals and reptiles, and even that warranty was limited to 14 days from the date of purchase. The cost of accepting dogs (or cats) from a puppy (or kitten) mill is much cheaper than accepting dogs (or cats) from a breeder. Breeders want to guarantee their animals will be well taken care of. That's why the good breeders will actually ask YOU questions as well as answering any questions you may have from them. So yes, it does (to me at least) make sense that pet stores buy from mills. The animals are cheaper, are more unwanted that from breeders. Most mill animals are given to pet stores due to "wrong color" or "too small" or "not friendly enough" to be kept.

My aunt worked at *edit* in Manitoba for 15 years and those are the reasons they were often given animals. As someone said previously, orange and grey kittens are most common at petstores. Why? Because they're not "special" enough colors. She finally quit when they refused to stop supporting mills. Even their birds come from mills. Or I guess, large mass aviaries would be the right term.

When I considered getting a ragdoll kitten, *edit* was asking $1200 for a 6 week old. Kittens aren't supposed to be weaned from their mothers until 8-12 weeks of age. A breeder I looked into was asking a $600 adoption fee, which included all vet checks, first shots, deworming, a temporary license (I think it was 3 months?), and the cost of spaying/neutering (otherwise they make you sign a contract stating you will not breed your intact animal for fear of legal repurcussions). Plus the breeder would not let the kitten go until s/he was 12 weeks of age (3 months). Half the cost through the breeder than I would have paid through *edit*.

Most health problems arise in the later years of life. Petstores tend to sell puppies or kittens. Not older adults, aside from *edit* rescues. But generally those have written information stating if anything is wrong with them and how *edit* came to aquire them.

Also, did you know that at *edit*, you can haggle the prices down? If they paid $600 for a dog from a breeder, do you think they'd haggle the price down? All it took was for me to go back with my information from the breeder with all the costs and *edit* was "willing" to "let it go" for $500.

Wow. What a great store, they obviously cared so much about their animals.

[Der_Iron_Chef]

So if I have hip dysplasia, what does that say about dear old mom and dad? Damn, I knew they were shady.