Tangs in a 90?

[BCOrchidGuy]

I agree with Troy, not every subject that gets some attention is closed or black listed etc etc, I appreciate the fact that the moderators watch a topic like this one closely, it can quickly escalate to something ugly and they are always there to catch it if it does.

I've only had experience with a couple of tangs, Sail fin did very nicely in my 90, very nicely indeed. The Orange Shoulder, (epaulette) didn't fare well at all, it died with in two days of going into my tank, a quick look told the sad story. White nodes all over it's gills, you couldn't see them until the fish was dead. I took a lot of flack for posting about this fish as it was a very well respected store that I got it from. I still shop there and I accepted the responsibility that yes I SHOULD HAVE had a QT tank. My bad, poor fish.

Frankly, I think a tang
1: is not a beginners fish
2: needs as much room as possible
3: grows into it's environment in many ways
4: Can still out grow a tank easilly (depends a lot on the Tang though)
5: Can be kept with others that look the same etc IF sufficient room is provided.

Please note I said I think, not I know, not this is the only way it can be etc etc. You wanted opinions, well those are mine.

For the record, I kept a nice small SailFin in a 24 Gallon bow front for about 8 weeks, it kept company with a FoxFace and they both where fat when they went into the 155. Neither of them showed any anxiety about the small tank, they both ate well and did their thing (fish thing ya know).

Doug

[AJ_77]

My opinion is that a Regal is not a good choice for a 90. I've seen a pair of them in a 300gal, and that seemed more reasonable.

I had a medium Naso in a 6-ft tank, and it could bolt the length of the tank in about .1 seconds. Just for fun. (or was it miserable? )

Now we have a small Yellow tang in a 75. Never seen a happier fish.

[Samw]

This expert has a Zebrasoma in a 38G (its says 40 but he posted that is actually a 38G).

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/Fish.htm

My opinion is that a fishkeeper's dedication and capability is way more important than size of a tank. I had a Hippo in a 38G several times with no problems to the fish and only got rid of them because of the bioload issues. The fish showed no stress nor stunted growth. I sold the first one to somebody with a 200G tank but due to a non-optimal environment in the new tank, the tang didn't make it very long in the new owner's tank.

I suspect that more tangs die in bigger tanks of fishkeepers who didn't know what they were doing than in smaller tanks of fishkeepers who did know what they were doing. In other words, if you know what you are doing, you can keep a tang in a small tank. If you don't know what you are doing, a tang won't survive no matter what the size of tank. Tank size is less important when compared to the fishkeeper's ability.

[naesco]

Brad my post was a 'general lament' not meant to offend you or anyone on this board.

My objection is to a poster who posts something to the effect that
"I have three tangs in my 3 footer and they are all doing well. Go for it!"

Here is the scientific reply to those that are looking for numbers.

"Finally, no discussion of Surgeonfish would be complete without talking about tank size. This is an often-debated topic that usually becomes heated on both sides of the fence. Most everyone can agree, however, that the larger the aquarium the better off the fish will be. Many authors recommend certain "minimum" aquarium sizes; though it seems no one can agree on exactly what the "minimum" is. Realistically speaking, the "minimum" environment for these fish is any aquarium the owner feels morally and ethically comfortable putting the fish into. Each hobbyist must come to his or her own conclusions, but hopefully these decisions are made only after reviewing the data that is readily available.

Scroll back up to the paragraph discussing mating rituals and you'll see that Robertson has already given us a reference for territorial dimensions, at least during the mating season. If you take the minimum number of animals (15 - one male, two females, per group with five sub-groups) divided by the minimum defined territory (100m2) you'd discover the groups maintained a minimum of 20m2 each or a minimum of 6.66m2 per animal. For those of you not good with transcribing meters into feet, 6.66m2 works out to be roughly 21.8f2 per animal. That would be an aquarium roughly 7 feet long and 3 feet wide. Hmmm. For the sake of argument let's take the maximum number of individuals, packed into the largest territory known. Sixty-four fish (one male, seven females per group, and eight sub-groups) packed into 200m2.
This works out to 25m2 per sub-group, or just over 3m2 per animal or about 10f2, or about the size of any of the commercially available 125-gallon aquariums. Hence, I would propose this is a good starting point as the absolute minimum aquarium size for any solitary individual

[Troy F]

Nemo, one thing about your observations and the conclussion you seem to be making that I find flawed is that in the wild they are able to move out of one anothers space at need. The cramped confines of our tanks can't be compared.

[Samw]

If we are going to use territory to estimate the space needed for a fish, why aren't we doing that for every animal? How much space would a wild dog or horse need? In the wild, their territory span miles I'm sure. Yet, there are hundreds or thousands of dog owners in downtown Vancouver keeping dogs in their condo. Yet, the SPCA does nothing about it. Horses are kept in small fields. What about rats? Isn't a cage too small for a rat? What about birds? Isn't a cage too small for a bird? What's the minimize size of cage for a bird? Why do some many people keep these animals in spaces much smaller than their normal territory size? Those examples seem more cruel yet for some reason, people make more noise over a fish in a 90G tank.

[naesco]

Nemo our own Stircrazy posted this in reference to mixing same species tangs in a tank

I had a yellow and a sailfin in a 94 gal, both were small and all they did was fight, I would not concider keeping two of the same genus in anything under a 200 gal tank again and even then I would have resavations.

Steve

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by naesco

Brad my post was a 'general lament' not meant to offend you or anyone on this board.

Wayne, absolutely no offense taken. As far as I'm concerned, your posts on this topic are more than welcome here, and rather than a right or wrong type discussion, I see this as more an exchange of opinions.

If I had a big tank and a small tank, and bought a tang, it would most certainly go in the big one once home. In my personal case, I chose to keep both my tangs during my downgrade, as I felt I could provide a better home than just giving them away to a bigger tank. I have many years of personal attachment and investment in these fish, and while size may matter, there are many other factors that I felt I could meet in my 75. I was a bit apprehensive putting them in there, but with the massive flow and ample swimming room, they are doing just fine. (for fish out of their home). This gives me a degree of confidence in saying that yes, a tang can do well in a 90. Not all tangs in all 90s, but some can, and if you're so inclined, read these types of threads and decide for yourself.

[naesco]

Sam the answer is obvious

This is a reefers board dedicated to helping each other out.
We owe it to the fish we keep to provide an optimal environment for them.
Optimum is not possible for all reefers but let us agree on the minimum acceptable.

[Aquattro]

Originally Posted by naesco

but let us agree on the minimum acceptable.

Ah, but herein lies the problem...we can't agree on what's acceptable, and likely never will.
Rather than trying to stop someone from keeping a tang in a 90 (they're going to get one), let's help the reefer learn HOW to keep the tang in the 90. Provide lots of flow, a varied diet, lots of swimming room (and hiding room) and no competition for food.
And I'll give you points on some tangs shouldn't go in a 90, IMO tangs like clowns, sohals, nasos..
but there are enough reports of success with yellows, purples, etc, that we can safely say yes, a tang like that can and often does do well in a tank of less than 6 feet.
Are we agreeing yet?