404 Fluval throw it off the balcony party!

[bongy]

Hi Beverly,

The way I understand it, for non-plant FW tank, you use the filter to convert Ammonia and Nitrite to Nitrate. Without plant, the only way to remove Nitrate is by periodic water change. Therefore, for FW, the job of the filter is to produce Nitrate. Then, the less-toxic Nitrate is removed by water change.

For my plant tank, actually, I prefer the plant to take up Ammonia directly (hopefully even before the filter convert it to Nitrate). That's the way I hope my filter is working now.

I agree. Whether it is plant, non-plant, FW or SW, it's better to have no or very little nitrate in the tank. However, the mechanism to get there is different.

Bongy

Originally Posted by Beverly

What am I missing here??

In neither fw or sw does one want high nitrates, unless it was a planted tank where the plants would utilize the nitrate (and phosphate) from the decomposing crap. My sw tanks all have some sort of macroalgae utilizing nutrients and even with weekly media cleaning/15% water changes, I still have detectable nitrate, usually about 10-15 ppm.

[Ken]

I like to join the party, but I'm too far away. On smaller tanks, I perfer an aqua500 power filter, never need to shut off the electrical when I need to clean the sponge or replace the carbon. My advice GET RID OF that 404!

[bulletsworld]

Originally Posted by bongy

Quality.
My old Eheim 2222 just seem to out last the two fluval. I got two friends who also own 2 fluval 404. Between us three, we have problems with sealing, motor, the plastic locking thing, etc. The eheim is a much better build.

The two filters does look similar and do the same thing but so does BMW and Ford.

Ain't that the truth!!

Hey thanks bongy for all your input, greatly appreciated! Yeah I now have 2 broken down Fluvals of the model 404. I think I would be just a sucker to go buy another one. The problems with sealing, motor, the plastic pressurized need mussles to lock top on & the priming of the unit (Air in hose) & shaking to get going has been my headache since I got this tank. Yeah had it with Fluval although they do have a newer model with fixed upgrades they say. Tempting though since its what i already know.
...Ummm. NOT!

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I shopped in everystore last night, ending up at my last store stop empty handed with frustration of everyone telling what product was the best. To the last store...the reef guru himself, to ask me this question in some many words...

Why do I need a canister filter. Why not scrap the idea all together, save the money & run system on a skimmer & powerhead for the flow ONLY.

Can it really be done sucessfully providing I have a good skimmer?
Am I opening up a can of worms? Will my tank fall off it axial? Having a cowfish though doesnt running the carbon in the filter help remove released toxin if any? Would I be pushing my luck?

Thoughts anyone?

[mr_alberta]

Hey,

Why don't you skip the canister, get a nice protein skimmer and a smaller aquaclear filter (like a 200) just to run carbon? Then you would have 3 sources of flow in your tank: skimmer, aquaclear and powerhead.

[RobbAdams]

Sorry I guess I should have clarified that my tank contained tons of Vals! and I did a 25 gallon water change at least once a month.But either way, it really processes waste well, breaks it down quite quickly. Also the new pro II models apparently have a priming unit built in.

[Quinn]

I'm still trying to figure out what the point of using mechanical filtration methods (other than protein skimmers) on saltwater tanks is in the first place.

[Beverly]

Quinn,

I don't run skimmers, refugs or sumps on any of my three reefs, only use mechanical filtration. Works pretty well, only the media requires at least weekly cleaning depending on the bioload.

Our first reef, a 75g started up in 1998, used both a skimmer and mechanical filtration. Skimmer skimmed well, except for the occasional overflow . IME, skimmers don't pull out the larger particulate matter which mechanical filtration does best. Again, depending on bioload, media needs to be cleaned weekly even with a skimmer, which also benefits from weekly cleaning, IME.

I dunno, but the combo of skimmer and mechanical filtration, without refugs and sumps, is a useful, two fisted approach to crud removal and nitrate reduction. JME, though....

[bulletsworld]

Originally Posted by newguy

Hey,Why don't you skip the canister, get a nice protein skimmer and a smaller aquaclear filter (like a 200) just to run carbon? Then you would have 3 sources of flow in your tank: skimmer, aquaclear and powerhead.

Hey that could work! Even have a 200 Aquaclear already. Maybe I'm wrong to think carbon even helps remove cowfish toxin if released? Does anyone know?

Originally Posted by teevee

I'm still trying to figure out what the point of using mechanical filtration methods (other than protein skimmers) on saltwater tanks is in the first place.

Yeah me 2 now that I think about it. Thats why when I was told "why not scrap the whole idea of replacing the canister filter, add more rock, add powerhead for flow & get a better protein skimmer as the mechanical filter", it got me scratching my head. Hmm.....

Thoughts anyone?

[Quinn]

I think Bev's method is good, and obviously it works well for her. At the same time, the modified Berlin method many of us are using is very simple and nearly foolproof (hey, it even works for me). Leanne, I do feel that you would do well with a skimmer, an increased quantity of live rock, and a few powerheads. A used skimmer can be had for an excellent price, and live rock is also cheap if you look around. Of course, consider your options carefully, and do what you feel will work best for you.

[bulletsworld]

Hey thanks for the tips everyone. Now I just have to decide...what should I do?

Hmm....Skimmer shopping here I come.