The RED List of Fish, Inverts, and Corals

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by whatcaneyedo

I know you're not looking for more links and want your own list but here is Reef Central's Difficult and Special Care Species list anyways:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...readid=1157901

Funny story: I've tried sharing this list with many people in the hobby locally including our LFS and every time I do someone interprets it as saying "no one is allowed to buy ANY of these". Many people just look at how long the list is instead of trying to read it... then I get crap for pretending to be a know-it-all and trying to tell everyone what to do.

My message is: I support the idea but be careful about how the list is presented.

This is my favorite quote from that list:

"Centropyge heraldi (almost always caught using drugs)"

I have zero tolerance for drug use in my tank. Any fish caught using drugs is taken straight back to the LFS. Warnings like this are perfect since now I know Lemon Peel Angels are almost always going to do drugs.

[Myka]

Originally Posted by whatcaneyedo

My message is: I support the idea but be careful about how the list is presented.

I agree 100%! The idea of this thread was to have a short, sweet list of the commonly available, and commonly lost fish so that it would be an easy, quick read in hopes that more people would take a look. For example, Bangaii Cardinals are nearly extinct in the wild and have a very large chance of becoming extinct in the near future, and I would bet 95% of aquarists have no idea at all. Another example would be Powder Blue Tangs. SUPER popular, but rather difficult to keep healthy, and SO many people have no clue.

[Leah]

The list is a great idea. Alot of the stuff on it can be helpful. And hopefully we do take
some responibility. But my thought is none of us should really do this at all. From live
rock, live sand, corals, fish, even crabs and snails. It is very selfish to say the least but
here we all are. Stealing from the oceans and paying someone along the way to bring us
each what we want. Do we wait till things are endangered before we take a stand. Seems a little backwards to me. We all are guilty if you ask me.
We are not looking at the bigger picture here, there is no way to justify this and if we do
we are only fooling ourselves. On that note, happy reefing everyone. * Meow *

[Snaz]

This list is a great idea. I for one will pledge NOT to purchase any of the species on the RED list.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Originally Posted by Snaz

This list is a great idea. I for one will pledge NOT to purchase any of the species on the RED list.

I would like to say the same but since I still don't believe in a complete ban of all these red list fish, I can't say I will. In fact I know if I ever found AEFW in my tank, I would be after the Nudibranchs that eat them in a heartbeat. I also have plans to try a Moorish Idol one day (especially since many of the recent ones coming into JL have been eating right away and I will buy it Zoas and sponges to eat). With regards to the Moorish Idol, I will only try one and if it doesn't work, I know better than to keep trying...I learned that lesson with Copperbands.

IMO the red list fish need to be more carefully brought into stores through special order but not banned completely unless they are endangered.

Originally Posted by Leah

But my thought is none of us should really do this at all. From live
rock, live sand, corals, fish, even crabs and snails. It is very selfish to say the least but
here we all are.

As much as this hobby does its part to destroy the ocean, it is FAR from the leading reason the ocean is in decline. Stop the collection and destruction for this hobby and trust me, the oceans are still going to be disappearing/declining at an alarming rate. Doesn't mean we shouldn't do all we can to help but I find comment like this about how no one should be doing this hobby to be way too "PETA" for me and it drives me nuts...how can you be so hypocritical? There is always a balance.

[Leah]

Originally Posted by GreenSpottedPuffer

I would like to say the same but since I still don't believe in a complete ban of all these red list fish, I can't say I will. In fact I know if I ever found AEFW in my tank, I would be after the Nudibranchs that eat them in a heartbeat. I also have plans to try a Moorish Idol one day (especially since many of the recent ones coming into JL have been eating right away and I will buy it Zoas and sponges to eat). With regards to the Moorish Idol, I will only try one and if it doesn't work, I know better than to keep trying...I learned that lesson with Copperbands.

IMO the red list fish need to be more carefully brought into stores through special order but not banned completely unless they are endangered.



As much as this hobby does its part to destroy the ocean, it is FAR from the leading reason the ocean is in decline. Stop the collection and destruction for this hobby and trust me, the oceans are still going to be disappearing/declining at an alarming rate. Doesn't mean we shouldn't do all we can to help but I find comment like this about how no one should be doing this hobby to be way too "PETA" for me and it drives me nuts...how can you be so hypocritical? There is always a balance.

So it gives us the right to take it. You have missed the point here. Yes we all are hypocritical. How would you like to be put in a cage and kept by seacreatures?????
Not much I would guess.

[Madreefer]

These so called "lists" just seem to **** people off more than they do any good. Much easier if people spent a little time doing research. There's too many ignorant people that just figure "oh well... I'm gonna try anyways" Most of what I read are people that have had tanks set up less than 6 months and don't listen anyways. If you don't research, you don't learn. It is probably not a good idea to take a list like this to a LFS telling them what they should and should not sell. Just like another member says "you have to use the proper wording". It can start some nasty arguements.

[my2rotties]

Most times research tells us they are hard to keep due to not eating or water quality must be mint... if the fish is eating and the water params of the reefer are mint, it will give us a green light to go ahead... then little do we know there are other factors involved and the things you know you can provide are simply not enough.

If some fish are coral nippers, and we have a few corals it would be nice to know which corals have been targeted to either remove them of watch them.

I have never bought or will try a red list fish at this point. If I ever did, it would be from another reefer and not the LFS. If people expand on their experience it helps others know better. If someone has made the mistake of buying the fish already any success stories in keeping specialized creatures can help them try their best to be successful themselves.

There are other things about fish like jumping that some research may not show... things like how to keep the fish from jumping and measures reefers had to take to keep them in the tank is appreciated since a canopy might not be enough.

There are only a couple of LFS in my area that are very honest and knowledgeable with customers. There are a few that will tell you anything to make you feel alright about buying the fish. Then you come home with a disaster and the store won't stand by what they told you. However there are a couple of stores that will stand by the info and help you out. However it is not always the case and new reefers have trail and error with every store until they learn the hard way.

Originally Posted by Madreefer

These so called "lists" just seem to **** people off more than they do any good. Much easier if people spent a little time doing research. There's too many ignorant people that just figure "oh well... I'm gonna try anyways" Most of what I read are people that have had tanks set up less than 6 months and don't listen anyways. If you don't research, you don't learn. It is probably not a good idea to take a list like this to a LFS telling them what they should and should not sell. Just like another member says "you have to use the proper wording". It can start some nasty arguements.

[Madreefer]

Originally Posted by my2rotties

Most times research tells us they are hard to keep due to not eating or water quality must be mint... if the fish is eating and the water params of the reefer are mint, it will give us a green light to go ahead... then little do we know there are other factors involved and the things you know you can provide are simply not enough.

If some fish are coral nippers, and we have a few corals it would be nice to know which corals have been targeted to either remove them of watch them.

I have never bought or will try a red list fish at this point. If I ever did, it would be from another reefer and not the LFS. If people expand on their experience it helps others know better. If someone has made the mistake of buying the fish already any success stories in keeping specialized creatures can help them try their best to be successful themselves.

There are other things about fish like jumping that some research may not show... things like how to keep the fish from jumping and measures reefers had to take to keep them in the tank is appreciated since a canopy might not be enough.

There are only a couple of LFS in my area that are very honest and knowledgeable with customers. There are a few that will tell you anything to make you feel alright about buying the fish. Then you come home with a disaster and the store won't stand by what they told you. However there are a couple of stores that will stand by the info and help you out. However it is not always the case and new reefers have trail and error with every store until they learn the hard way.

As I said "these so called lists start arguements." Listening to some kid making minimum wage at a LFS is not research. I'm not going to add to any list or argue someone elses opinion of what should be on it. I guarantee that the people who are adding to these lists have never owned some of the fish that they are posting up. This fish did'nt work out for me or Joe Blow so you should'nt get it. They don't know what people have for setups and there is alot of people who do not use forums because of conflicting beliefs. My points are that each person should do their own research. And the other is, that nobody should go to someones place of business and tell them how to run it.

[my2rotties]

I whole heartily agree with you...

When I bought my puffer, I bought him from the OWNER of the store who's been in this business for thirty some years... I honestly though he could be trusted since he has been in business so long Now I know better and went through some losses of livestock but now have been able to make him work in my system after a lot of trail and error. Now I know better...

I also now have learned to pay for my fish and leave it at the store for a month or two. The stores I shop at have no problem with that, and are happy to do so... This way I can do my homework and decide if the fish will work for my system and see the pros and cons of having this species. It also gives the store a chance to ensure the fish is healthy and eating. The one fish I have sitting at the LFS has been there 10 weeks and has finally been deemed fit for my tank. I have not, and will not be bringing it home, but they are holding it even longer to make sure I don't change my mind. Then they told me what I need to do with my system to ensure he does survive and how to treat him if he does get ill. Many of the stores I deal with do not bring red list species in, but the store I bought my puffer at does... he sold a batfish to a girl whom is struggling to keep him alive now but she was told the fish was fine and eating...

Sometimes research does not bring up things that can and do come up, and personal experience from reefers that have kept these fish would be most helpful. I will never personally ask on the forums about things since it causes heated debates and flames directed at the questions. However I can find people in my research and PM them personally for help which I have done now.

Originally Posted by Madreefer

As I said "these so called lists start arguements." Listening to some kid making minimum wage at a LFS is not research. I'm not going to add to any list or argue someone elses opinion of what should be on it. I guarantee that the people who are adding to these lists have never owned some of the fish that they are posting up. This fish did'nt work out for me or Joe Blow so you should'nt get it. They don't know what people have for setups and there is alot of people who do not use forums because of conflicting beliefs. My points are that each person should do their own research. And the other is, that nobody should go to someones place of business and tell them how to run it.