Pet foods!

[EmilyB]

I try to leave pet nutrition with the specialists, and not to the chicken leg feeders...lol I hope I never have to feed raw chicken...

Seriously, my dogs are indoor dogs and I am imagining giving them a raw chicken leg...

and...someone I know just went raw, and their dog died from salmonella poisoning.

Why raw? The canine in the wild is very short lived. ?

We adopted a greyhound who was on the track for 3 years. All raw. His teeth were horrible. How do you raw feeders deal with that?

[Diana]

I brush the dog's teeth a few times a month (mainly because Taro has a crooked tooth and he gets plaque), but I honestly have not had them on raw long enough to see any degradation in tooth health. If they chew raw bone it should clean their teeth. I can foresee their teeth getting bad on just ground raw food... but my dogs had plaque with kibble too so I believe you should always brush their teeth. Plus they get lots of rawhide chews and stuff.

I would be interested in hearing more about your friend's dog that died from salmonella. What raw food was he/she feeding and where did she get it? Was it frozen properly and/or refrigerated? Was the dog otherwise healthy?

I do not believe wild dogs (and I am mainly thinking wolves) are short-lived. A great book called "Decade of the Wolf" following the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone details the lives of many of the wolves, and most lived average ages for domesticated dogs.... some even pushing 10.

Its interesting to me because people look at dogs in two ways: wild wolves, or domesticated kibble eaters. Have we forgotten the 10,000 years in between? Dogs have been eating table scraps and the leftovers from cleaning human kills for nearly 10,000 years. For the most part they have deviated from consuming fresh kills. But they have been fed kibble for only maybe a bit longer than 100 years (it would be interesting to look into the subject further). My dog's allergies were enough to question their kibble consumption.

Something that pushed me into feeding raw for ethical reasons was an article similar to this one:
http://www.homevet.com/petcare/foodbook.html

I always take everything I hear with a grain of salt, but it was enough to make me at least consider alternative ways. I am otherwise mostly vegetarian (I will consume organic and free range animals occasionally) so it was important for me to also provide my dogs with meat that was treated ethically not only in life but also in death (ie- organic and free range meats).

Ah sorry again for writing so much, but the subject interests me.

-Diana

[heyfredyourhat]

A friend of ours has a dog who has been on raw for nine yrs and had never had any dental work done, not even regular brushing and the teeth were in pretty good shape, no gnarly black junk and breath was decent.


I was always told that dogs cannot get salmonella and ecoli becuase of there very short digestive tract...But if a person with a weakend immune system were to handle the waste, they may come into contact with either germs.

[marie]

Originally Posted by heyfredyourhat

...But if a person with a weakend immune system were to handle the waste, they may come into contact with either germs.

The bacteria can also be present in the animals saliva

[Diana]

Haha yeah, I have to admit I have been hesitant to receive kisses from my dogs since going raw... and there is definitely no longer kisses in the mouth! Okay, I have revealed too much, I am going to bed.

[Quinster]

I at times find it comical when I see posts saying "Chinese Junk" in dog food, and people complaining about regulations affecting the dog food trade.

Did you know with human food, it can be caught, processed, packaged in China (or any overseas country), then shipped to Canada to be re packaged to meet with our standards, and as long as more than 50% of the total wholesalers cost is incurred in Canada, they can label the product as "Made In Canada". Yes that fresh Salmon could have been caught, filleted, and originally packaged in China.

China is attempting to get full FDA regulations at this moment and is going through stringent regulation applications to do so. They are under the lens of a microscope and it isn't the country as a whole causing these issues, it is a few bad eggs which can occur anywhere. The first person found directly linked to the pet food scandal was put to death for his crimes, in Canada or the US do you think they would have gotten much more than a slap on the wrist and a warning, possible fine, maybe worst case scenario a little time in jail?

There are a lot of issues in Canada which caused deaths with our own people in the last few years...Maple Leaf...how many people did they just kill, and now they have just shipped out wieners that were specifically tagged DO NOT SHIP as they did not pass QC testing.

Going back a little further the Walkerton water issue. How many people were killed by that? They never did mention an animal toll but I am sure there were. The person responsible admitted guilt of fraudulent documentation and concealing test results, and what happed to him, I can tell you he wasn’t put to death.

The biggest issue at hand isn’t the Chinese; it is our regulators who should be testing incoming foods to our country. It is our regulators who allow food being processed in other places to be labelled “Made in Canada”. And we ourselves can do more by being aware of what we buy.

I have rescued 2 English Bulldogs; they were both fed Nutro Max Lamb and Rice dry at the recommendation of 2 Veterinarians after we found food allergies with the first one to chicken. The first rescue was deemed to be not salvageable by the local humane society, I got him when he was just 5, and he lived to be over 10, a great life for any Bulldog. The second rescue we got when he was 1, was told he may not survive, and his digestive system will never be right and may need special food for the rest of his life. He lived to be over 11. Now my 2 year old is eating the same, and have never had an issue with him.

I am not saying lets all jump off the grid, build a home made of solar panels, and grow all our own food while wearing Birkenstocks and hugging the trees, but, you shouldn’t live under a rock thinking it is all the other countries causing the issues we see here.

And they aren’t out to get us; they are experiencing the same if not worse issues themselves.

[EmilyB]

Originally Posted by Diana

I would be interested in hearing more about your friend's dog that died from salmonella. What raw food was he/she feeding and where did she get it? Was it frozen properly and/or refrigerated? Was the dog otherwise healthy?

The vet there said it was a fairly common occurence. They couldn't find any other explanation, the dog had eaten raw chicken (in fact the family consumed the same chicken, albeit cooked). Kidney failure took the 7 month old dog in about four days.

Man, I could never go without dog kisses !!!!

[Rbacchiega]

apparently my boys have such an afinity for ear wax and boogers trying to avoid puppy kisses would be useless.

[marie]

I do not believe wild dogs (and I am mainly thinking wolves) are short-lived. A great book called "Decade of the Wolf" following the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone details the lives of many of the wolves, and most lived average ages for domesticated dogs.... some even pushing 10.

I missed this comment last night.
10 is not old for a domesticated dog, yes for some breeds like great danes ect but we had a black lab that lived to be 18yrs old and I have a shih-tzu right now who will be 15 in march. You should at least expect 12-14 happy years out of a dog and more often 16 yrs+ is the norm for the smaller breeds

[Diana]

Of course 10 years is not old for a domesticated dog, thats why I said "average". Some dogs reach only 7 years, some dogs can live well into their teens. I am hoping for 15 years out of my dogs (small breed). Wolves in the wild are often killed by rival packs once they start to slow down, but it is not uncommon for them to live past 10, which IMO is pretty damn good, even for domestic dog standards. The point I was trying to make is that thier lifespans are not "short". But alas, we really cannot compare our domesticates to them, since they are but distant relatives.