Heartbreak hotel

[Delphinus]

What were the symptoms that made you think vibrio?

I'll do some reading on that. I'm reading a few threads on RC where people have theorized about pathogens, so it seems I'm not alone on this one after all. But how can you tell? I'm rather uncomfortable with the notion of an antibiotic treatment, or at least proceeding on something based on an uneducated guess.

[Jason McK]

It sounds to me that the coral, when in the origonal system was defending itself from something. If it was sliming up. Either that or just like you said just didn't make the transition well.

Why not try some Frags. Start off with digitata. Stuff a phosban reactor full of Carbon and run it 24/7 then add a frag or 2.

[Quinster]

Check back to when Gools was TOTM and check his tank load, HUGE LPS and also HUGE SPS, tonnes of growth on both, and even softies from time to time (including an overflow encased in GSP), the only items he didn't have which you do Tony is Clams and Anemones.

[Delphinus]

BTW, I'm not discounting allelopathy as a phenomenon in general, but I am skeptical that it is the cause here. There was a time people skoffed at my suggestions that chemical warfare is happening in our tanks, but nowadays I feel like I'm on the other side of that debate - too often people scream "chemical warfare" or "allelopathy" when something is happening that we can't easily rationalize away. In general, mixed garden type reef tanks do not work well long term because of this. However, I don't really consider what I have to be mixed reefs.

Let me explain myself a little more. At various points in the past 3 years, I have had my tanks completely devoid of corals. The only steadfast inhabitants I've had through this time period now are the fish. I already have the anemones isolated from one another because that I beleive that they will interact without direct contact.

Therefore if it was an allelopathy issue, it should have been impacted by these fallow periods... but it was not. I ran SPS only for the longest time and did well by it until approximately 8 months after I moved. One other thing that I may not have mentioned yet, is that one other thing that leads me to suspect this could be more pathogenic in nature, is that it all started happening after I traded frags with someone. The frags that were acquired in that trade never did well and eventually all perished (despite rampant growth in my other SPS). However, it just seemed that whatever happened to them, would start happening to other SPS, one by one. Until the point was reached where I noticed that all my corals were just not looking the same as before. To an untrained eye things looked great. When the Intermamerican folks came by to deliver my 280g, they made the comment that I had one of the nicest SPS reefs that they had ever seen. I felt honored by the comment but I had this nagging suspicion at the time that things were not right (just based on week to week observations). Within months of that point I had an empty tank, well, basically, a fish-only.

I also think allelopathy would just have a more "random" feel to it. This is rather specific, repeatable and ... I don't know how to say it. "Thorough?" "Complete?" I mean, it's 100%, all you need is to give something enough time.

What worries me is that I'm setting up a new tank, and if it's something that can transfer ... then I'm in a world of hurt. In time, there will be transfer into the new system. Fish will be moved, clams will be moved ... this can't happen without water making the trip with them. If there's something in that water ... I need to find a way to manage that aspect. Well, first to confirm, then to manage I guess.

[digital-audiophile]

What are your plans with the 180, are you going to transfer everything from your 75G or are you starting it from scratch? That may be the true test in the long run if it can keep SPS alive.

I don't know a lot about it but you always hear the term "old tank syndrome" thrown out there, I don't know if there is really an explination for it, or if it is just something that is suggested when an old tank seems to start going wrong.


- LOL you must have been editing your post as I was writing mine.. I think you already answered by question

[Joe Reefer]

Tony, I think its karma. You need to get the big tank going.
Honestly I have no idea what the problem could be.

[Snappy]

Tony,
I am not sure what to tell you, I thought you were on the rebound. I have leathers, gorgonians, zoos, mushrooms, gsp, 20 varieties of LPS and a wack of sps all in the same display. Also plumbed into the same system are 2 other tanks, 1 mostly softies and then my frag prop tank with mostly sps. There has to be more to this story that we are not considering. Are you running carbon? if so, how much and how often do you change it? Are you getting a good enough flow? But even with that, for a mille to slime for days on end is something I have never seen so I conclude there is definately an issue with the water.
Here's a story, I am very sensitive to chemicals and we lived in a house only 3 blocks from where we were living in Acadia. We lived there for three years and during that time I was sick way more than usual or ever before. Anyway, we sold the place 11 years ago & moved to where we are now and my health greatly improved and went back to normal. Is it possible that somehow your house is located near something that could cause problems? Something in the walls, type of insulation, etc? Who knows? I attributed my health issues to a small natural gas terminal that was a few blocks down from where we lived although nobody else around seemed affected by it. Here's another example: I heard of an individual in the States that after months of grief finally tore his whole system apart and found a tarnished penny in the back of his rock work. I guess some kid used his reef as a wishing well during a visit from relatives and it started killing things. I know it sounds like a wierd long shot but given your vast experience & expertize in the hobby and the fact that it has only been a problem since you moved, it just makes me wonder what else it can be. Sometimes there is just something in the air. Can you rig up a carbon filter for your skimmer's air intake? Like I said I know it sounds odd but it might be worth a try.

[Snappy]

Stuff a phosban reactor full of Carbon and run it 24/7 then add a frag or 2.

I think this is the next logical step. I'll give you some frags to experiment with.

[danny zubot]

Sounds like an experiment would be in order. I'll donate some caps frags if you want.

[Delphinus]

As tempted as I am to blame the house or the new location, that of course opens the door to more sinister questions like is it even safe to live in it? I would hope that this part is OK.

I'm actually not running carbon right now. I can always put some on though, guess it can't hurt. I'm sort of wondering if running UV might be something to look into.

Old tank syndrome is also something I've thought about. I think that this is a mix of both "documented and explainable buildups/depletions" and "something we just throw out there when we can't come up with any other plausible explanation." Ultimately there is so much going on at a level we can't really perceive it's really hard to come up with simple one-tiered approaches to problem solving.