You get what you pay for?! A marketing hype or a reality?

[jorjef]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

Definitely. But a person who drives mercedes should never insist another person that he/she must buy Mercedes cause a ford is not safe and won't last and won't drive and blah blah blah....every one would love to be able to afford a mercedes but if one can't...its not the end of the world. Its a luxury and not a necessity to buy mercedes. A ford would still work right?

You got that right brother. My AI sol's and WP 25 oh not to mention my HOB skimmer work just fine

[Madreefer]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

Lemme ask you some questions:

1. Does a tank need bubble king to succeed or does skimmers like vertex/bubble magus works? I have seen tanks having success with vertex skimmer and also bubble magus skimmer.

2. Do you need expensive LEDs to have success? Do you need radion/mitra to grow/color up successfully? If I am not wrong, you use AI and are happy. Isn't that all it matters? You being happy with your tank and not listening to "you get what you pay for" and running after fixtures like radion/mitra?

3. Do you need vortech to have proper flow in the tank?

4. Do you need expensive lights with expensive reflector to get corals growing?

The points I put forth for LEDs are related to "cost" and that is an independent to owning one. Companies say you save money with LED, I prove you don't. I have never said anything related to growth/coloration which is what depends on true experience. I did talk about disco affect which is something non-debatable.

All I am saying is "you get what you pay for" is not true (to me) for having success in this hobby.

1. I'm on my 8th skimmer. So yes i've had a little experience with them.
Tank looking and doing so much better by far and reliabilty has been
awesome since skimmer number 7 and 8. Hmmmm...both BubbleKing

2. Are you suggesting that AI products are low end? I see way more defects
with Radions than anything else. I have not tried them so really I have no
right to comment on them cause i've never tried them just like you.

3. I have 5 Vortech pumps and will not be using them on my new build cause
they will not suit my needs.My comment on them is that they are noisy
and I have had reliability issues with them and have had 3 replaced on
warranty. But I do think they are the best powerhead out there with all
the bells and whistles they have. I have traded them off on Tunzes that I
yet to try. So no comment on them.

4. No you dont need expensive lights or reflectors to grow corals. Where you
came up with this I dunno. I ran CoralLife MH fixture for years.

You proved nothing on LEDs to me. I changed my MH bulbs every 8-10 months and my 4 T5s every 6-8 months. I'm not about to do the math but it's been over 2 years and i'm pretty sure once I wear these LED fixtures out i'll be ahead of the game. I dont have a disco ball effect at all. I've only seen it once on this site with Vegas and several times with DIY setups. As for heat issues in the summer, this has helped tremendously and having that piece of mind knowing my tank is'nt boiling is good for me.
I see it on this site and as well as others. Most of the time the people that like to bash the more expensive pieces of equipment have never really owned them. I don't get it. So back to "Dont Knock It Till You Try It"
Raied i'm not trying to be ignorant i'm just answering your questions for me. By no means are these fighting words.
As someone else already said "if it works for you than great"
No need to be a hater.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Madreefer

1. I'm on my 8th skimmer. So yes i've had a little experience with them.
Tank looking and doing so much better by far and reliabilty has been
awesome since skimmer number 7 and 8. Hmmmm...both BubbleKing

I would step away from it. 8th skimmer is a lot

2. Are you suggesting that AI products are low end? I see way more defects
with Radions than anything else. I have not tried them so really I have no
right to comment on them cause i've never tried them just like you.

Well in terms of "you get what you pay for", AI is definitely on the low end. Its perfectly priced (atleast to me). And yes, we all have heard about radions having more defect. There you go...you don't always get what you pay for.

3. I have 5 Vortech pumps and will not be using them on my new build cause
they will not suit my needs.My comment on them is that they are noisy
and I have had reliability issues with them and have had 3 replaced on
warranty. But I do think they are the best powerhead out there with all
the bells and whistles they have. I have traded them off on Tunzes that I
yet to try. So no comment on them.

You have made your choice that you dont want vortech in your new build. Now someone comes forth and say hey don't waste your money on something else...you get what you pay for.....how would you defend? I believe you will say it doesn't suit you...that's it...its not about "how much you are paying for something" but its about "what suits you". If wps suit someone, he/she should use it without getting bashed/having a debate that he/she should spend more.

4. No you dont need expensive lights or reflectors to grow corals. Where you
came up with this I dunno. I ran CoralLife MH fixture for years.

I go through a lot of googling and end up in various sites (r2r, rc, etc.) and there are lots of thread such topics. Like when I was planning to buy odyssea, I could see lots of people (in other forums obviously; by no mean any of my pointers are to this forum only; infact most are to other forums) saying those are crappy fixtures, will burn down houses and are good for FOWLR tanks and things like that.

You proved nothing on LEDs to me. I changed my MH bulbs every 8-10 months and my 4 T5s every 6-8 months. I'm not about to do the math but it's been over 2 years and i'm pretty sure once I wear these LED fixtures out i'll be ahead of the game. I dont have a disco ball effect at all. I've only seen it once on this site with Vegas and several times with DIY setups. As for heat issues in the summer, this has helped tremendously and having that piece of mind knowing my tank is'nt boiling is good for me.
I see it on this site and as well as others. Most of the time the people that like to bash the more expensive pieces of equipment have never really owned them. I don't get it. So back to "Dont Knock It Till You Try It"
Raied i'm not trying to be ignorant i'm just answering your questions for me. By no means are these fighting words.
As someone else already said "if it works for you than great"
No need to be a hater.

You will definitely be ahead in the game because you are using AI which is priced right. If you were using radion or mitras, you wouldn't be saying that Just like people people like to bash expensive stuffs; there are people out there who like to bash non-expensive stuffs thinking they are just pieces made out of crap.

No hating with you at least or any fighting words

I wrote the replies in the quote

[Aquattro]

I've decided that anyone complaining about my moderating in the future is getting "you get what you pay for" as a reply -lol

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Aquattro

I've decided that anyone complaining about my moderating in the future is getting "you get what you pay for" as a reply -lol

Finally something effective came out of this thread.

[StirCrazy]

Originally Posted by mrhasan

You get what you pay for:

1. Custom build tanks: it is a well known fact that commercially available tanks are much cheaper than custom build tank. But I believe paying somewhat more for custom build tanks are worth it since thats the "house" of all your livestocks for which you will be paying money for!

2. Salt: IO is awesome; no doubt in that but it lacks some of the things that expensive salt has. Easy to overcome that with additives BUT you would have to measure things that are needed to be mixed. I believe paying $20 more for a bucket is worth it. After all, it is the 2nd most important thing for saltwater. But I also believe there's a very sharp break even point for using expensive to cheap salts as the tank size gets bigger.

3. Test kits: Yes I am willing to pay a bit more for test kits. Obviously not crazy amount but I believe the prices of salifert/elos are justified. Even hanna to some extend.

custom tanks, your not getting what you pay for, you are merely getting a size or options not available in mass produced tanks for a huge markup.

IO salt is just fine, people add so many additives anyways why spend extra on sale for stuff your going to add anyways. but even for those that don't some of the best tanks I have ever seen were IO and a ca reactor...

test kits I agree with you, not because of the quality but rather because the more expensive ones seam to be easier to read

[intarsiabox]

Originally Posted by Madreefer

You proved nothing on LEDs to me. I changed my MH bulbs every 8-10 months and my 4 T5s every 6-8 months. I'm not about to do the math but it's been over 2 years and i'm pretty sure once I wear these LED fixtures out i'll be ahead of the game. I dont have a disco ball effect at all. I've only seen it once on this site with Vegas and several times with DIY setups. As for heat issues in the summer, this has helped tremendously and having that piece of mind knowing my tank is'nt boiling is good for me.
I see it on this site and as well as others. Most of the time the people that like to bash the more expensive pieces of equipment have never really owned them. I don't get it. So back to "Dont Knock It Till You Try It"
Raied i'm not trying to be ignorant i'm just answering your questions for me. By no means are these fighting words.
As someone else already said "if it works for you than great"
No need to be a hater.

I have to agree about this. I have a G2 Radion sitting over my 29g tank, for me to buy a nice ATI T5 fixture with bulbs would be no cheaper (actually more expensive). The first 10 months after owning it I would have saved well over $150 in replacement bulbs and then saved some extra money on energy costs as well. No disco effect with this fixture even on white sand and rocks plus I can make it do what ever I want without it having to cost me $25 just to try a different color to see if I like it. To keep comparing apple to apples I can get a cheap LED fixture again for the same price as a cheap T5 fixture (so LED would still be cheaper within a year), unfortunately some of the cheap T5 fixtures also have a history of catching fire so I will never have them in my house even if the company says they have fixed the problems that went on for years. As a tradesman my tools and equipment are my livelihood and I can assure you that cheap tools are exactly that. I've wasted lots of money on cheap tools when I was starting out and all of them had to be replaced and in the case of precision machine work were just down right unusable. So yeah, in a lot of cases you really do get exactly what you pay for. To keep posting these same threads over and over again pretending to be looking for opinions but then disagree with everyone that posts that has a different opinion and also using it as a guise to run down things you don't and never have owned is getting very tiresome. Please move on.

[Reef Pilot]

Sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't. And sometimes people are hesitant to admit they did not get a good deal or made a mistake. But no shortage of opinions from people who have never even used a product, and just spew what seems to be popular. Myself, I would rather just hear from people with direct experience, and wish the others would just listen and try to learn something.

And then there are those that blame a product, instead of their own ineptness. What works great for one person might bomb for someone else.

What would be far more useful is people giving their experience along with some facts and explanation of how they were using a product (or method). And let everyone else make up their own minds about what they want to do. Plus we could better assess whether the person knows what they are doing or not.

Reminds me of stock trading. Worst thing people can do is run with the herd, or listen to popular opinion. Then when they lose all their money they blame the banks, brokers, corporations, markets, etc, and say the system is crooked. In reality, it was their own greed and laziness (lack of analysis and due diligence) that did them in and they got what they deserved.

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by intarsiabox

I have to agree about this. I have a G2 Radion sitting over my 29g tank, for me to buy a nice ATI T5 fixture with bulbs would be no cheaper (actually more expensive). The first 10 months after owning it I would have saved well over $150 in replacement bulbs and then saved some extra money on energy costs as well. No disco effect with this fixture even on white sand and rocks plus I can make it do what ever I want without it having to cost me $25 just to try a different color to see if I like it. To keep comparing apple to apples I can get a cheap LED fixture again for the same price as a cheap T5 fixture (so LED would still be cheaper within a year), unfortunately some of the cheap T5 fixtures also have a history of catching fire so I will never have them in my house even if the company says they have fixed the problems that went on for years. As a tradesman my tools and equipment are my livelihood and I can assure you that cheap tools are exactly that. I've wasted lots of money on cheap tools when I was starting out and all of them had to be replaced and in the case of precision machine work were just down right unusable. So yeah, in a lot of cases you really do get exactly what you pay for. To keep posting these same threads over and over again pretending to be looking for opinions but then disagree with everyone that posts that has a different opinion and also using it as a guise to run down things you don't and never have owned is getting very tiresome. Please move on.

1st bold line: I really don't understand what you mean by "same threads over and over again". Mind explaining?

2nd bold line: Did I really disagree with everyone? Although english is not my first language but I think there's a well understood difference between "disagree" and "debate" and I am capable enough to understand the difference.

3rd line: This is a public forum and everyone has the right to start a discussion/debate. There's admins out here. You don't have to the police. You really didn't have to post something like "please move on"...there's nothing to move onto...its just an thread where discussions are going on....there are both sides in this thread (if you would go through through all the posts). If you don't like this thread, you didn't have to comment on it. Nothing personal...cheers!

[mrhasan]

Originally Posted by Reef Pilot

Sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't. And sometimes people are hesitant to admit they did not get a good deal or made a mistake. But no shortage of opinions from people who have never even used a product, and just spew what seems to be popular. Myself, I would rather just hear from people with direct experience, and wish the others would just listen and try to learn something.

And then there are those that blame a product, instead of their own ineptness. What works great for one person might bomb for someone else.

What would be far more useful is people giving their experience along with some facts and explanation of how they were using a product (or method). And let everyone else make up their own minds about what they want to do. Plus we could better assess whether the person knows what they are doing or not.

Reminds me of stock trading. Worst thing people can do is run with the herd, or listen to popular opinion. Then when they lose all their money they blame the banks, brokers, corporations, markets, etc, and say the system is crooked. In reality, it was their own greed that did them in and they got what they deserved.

Nicely put and I totally agree Forums are all about sharing experiences. Suppose someone comes forth and ask "I am buying a bubble magus, will it work" and someone posts "that's a piece of crap, buy a bubble king"...how helpful is that?

Yah I am a victim of that myself....I have been through lots of bashing for buying less expensive stuffs. I have heard "if you cant afford a refractometer, this hobby is not for you"...really??!! There's certain things that scares off many people, and "you pay what you get for" is one of them. I believe I have no less of a success in my tank with moderate end products than tanks with high end product. Isn't this hobby about taking it slowly? Not everyone starts with big pocket and certain people don't need to scare them off. In the end, its about the husbandry and not on how expensive the equipment are. You shouldn't buy an ebay HOB skimmer but you certainly don't have to buy a deltec.