Zeovit System

[BlueTang<3]

All I got out of this thread is pintos are good ?

It all comes down too what your looking to achieve. Are you just going for low nutrient or do u want a nuts Sps tank?

Best bet would be read up on the zeo site it seems there is a little more help/ instruction for that product. Check out totm threads also a bunch of them are all on bio pellets there are. Ton of products out just need to pick what's best for ya

[albert_dao]

Originally Posted by asylumdown

The only other thing I'd say about zeobak (and this applies to all bacterial supplements) is that unless it's refrigerated all the way along it's chain of custody it likely has very little bacteria in it by the time most people buy it. And the notion that the microfaunal assemblage of a tank could be influenced in any way by adding 5 drops of a solution to a system that's already populated by several hundred billion bacteria of who knows how many species, even if there actually were lots of bacteria in the solution being administered... that seems far-fetched to me. It would honestly be pretty easy to set-up a trial to test whether that was true or not, but it would require getting ahold of a sample of fresh zeobak and first confirming over a period of months whether or not there were any living bacteria in it at all.

Just to cherry pick a bit, there are two dudes on this board (imisky and emerald_crab) who have cultured Zeobak straight from the bottle, producing several strains based on the carbon source, so....

[Myka]

I used Zeovit, Fauna Marin, Prodibio, vodka, and probably something else I'm forgetting.

I think Zeovit is best suited to well seasoned reefers as it is a line of products that involves a lot of tweaking and a lot of observing. Newbies generally don't have the experience to see the little changes. Algae and cyano problems are common with those who don't tweak the recipe well. It is challenging imo, and involves dedicated daily dosing. This is the line of products for the perfectionist nit picker SPS freak imo.

Prodibio I like parts of. I really like BioDigest and BiOptim which used together are called BioClean. This is a bacteria and bacteria food supplement. I like these products on my SPS tank, but find little effect on my LPS/Zoa tank. Dosing these two products increases polyp extension and overall color quite significantly. I don't like the ReefBooster product which I find tends to spur cyano outbreak.

Fauna Marin is another of my favourites. I really like their Balling Light Method which includes balling salts aka calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium powdered supplements that I use in my dosers. These are my favourite "big 3" supplements. The Balling Light Method also includes Trace 1, 2, and 3 where trace 1 and 2 are added to the calcium doser and Trace 3 is added to the alkalinity doser. I add magnesium to my waterchange water along with potassium (I use Brightwell Aquatics Potassion-P). I also add a very small amount of Fauna Marin Ultra Organic on occasion - 2.5 mL twice a week or so in my 90 which is way under the label directions. I find this product really helps brighten up colors, but too much will cause cyano, so I am very careful with it.

I didn't have much luck with vodka dosing. Limewater (kalkwasser) dosing with vinegar seems to be a better option.

My LPS/Zoa tank doesn't seem to be affected much by supplements. I find it does best with low lighting, lots of blue spectrum, Fauna Marin LPS pellets for feeding on occasion and regular waterchanges. If I start mucking about too much it just grows algae and the corals don't do as well. This is a low maintenance tank.

[asylumdown]

Originally Posted by albert_dao

Just to cherry pick a bit, there are two dudes on this board (imisky and emerald_crab) who have cultured Zeobak straight from the bottle, producing several strains based on the carbon source, so....

Yah I have no doubt that the age and storage conditions of my particular bottle had a lot to do with it. I would very much like to repeat the test with a fresh bottle. I'm not saying that korralen-Zucht is selling a bacterial supplement that has no bacteria in it, I'm saying that I'm not confident that what they're selling remains an active/effective product for long under the majority of usage conditions. Considering how it's stored at the store nearest my house and how long it takes them to turn over their supply... I'd bet that for a whole lot of people they've got nothing but water and some debris from the moment they open the bottle, making it a very expensive way to make yourself feel better about your tank maintenance regiment.

Also, successfully growing a culture of bacteria from a bottle is one thing, saying that dosing those bacteria in whatever quantity is present in each drop (which will be highly variable from person to person depending on where they bought it/how long they've had it) actually does anything at all in your tank is another. This isn't a problem unique to zeovit though, it's a valid question for all bacterial dosing systems.

I'm not against the zeovit system per se, in fact I'd probably be all over it if I had the patience to dose from droppers every single day. I'm just not convinced that beyond some bare bones base products that work very well to reduce nutrient loads in a tank, there are many products in their line-up that would make the differences claimed on their bottles in a double blind studies. Heck, I'm not even convinced that a lot of their claims are testable in any meaningful way given the vague, wishy washy, 'sounds like a biological statement but is in fact functionally meaningless' way they describe things on their bottles. It obviously works to achieve ULNS, but to do that you need like 3 products (4 if you believe that Zeobak has any value), and their line-up contains dozens which sell at 50 to 60 bucks a pop. I've managed to produce zeovit 'like' results with my tank (pastel colours, no algae growth, great polyp extension, enhanced growth) using biopellets and GFO, at a fraction of the cost of a zeovit system. I also just discovered tonight that my bottle of Pohl's extra is bone dry and likely has been for some time, and I had the dosing settings on my 'coral booster' set to 0 dosings a day (oops. You see why a system that requires daily attention would not be appropriate for me). I've noticed no difference in my coral's colour or growth rates since January, and while I know more than others that one anecdote does not a trend make, it gives me pause.

For what it's worth, I'm sure the people who sell it truly believe in it, so I don't think anyone is lying, and something about the system is clearly working because there are some spectacular zeovit tanks out there. The real question is how much of your money do you need to part with in a zeovit system to actually achieve those results. They would tell you quite a bit, when the reality is probably quite different.

[Myka]

Oh, I did forget to mention that there are Zeovit products that I really like on their own:

Coral Snow which effect I only see as a water clarifier though they claim it does much more.

Spur2 which makes SPS corals drop their zooxanthellae so you have to dose very carefully because if the corals drop all their zoox they will be dead. Dosed appropriately though, it helps control the richness of the colors so you can achieve anything from neon to pastel rather than deep rich hues. So that's a personal preference sort of a supplement. I also find that it helps browned out corals drop their brown zoox too.

Pohl's Xtra or Coral Vitalizer are both similar to FM Ultra Organic ime just by observation, they work like a food supplement. I find I have to be very careful with these as well or cyano outbreak will occur.

Iron Concentratereally increases green coloring, but will also greatly fuel algae, so I never dose this if I have any nuisance algae.

B-Balance is the only supplement I know of that really increases red coloring, but spurs algae just like the Iron.

When I tried the FULL Zeovit system (for about a year) I struggled very badly. I'm a well seasoned reefer, but I lack the passion to pick at my tank daily, and it seemed this was the cause of my failure. Once cyano hit me about 2 months in if I remember correctly, I struggled with small amounts of cyano for a long time after and finally quit Zeovit.

I find Prodibio, Fauna Marin, and Zeovit are all quite similar as far as their FULL line goes. Prodibio is much simpler and you dose only bi-weekly rather than daily. Also, Prodibio relies just on bacteria and bacteria food for nutrient export, no lith rocks. Very simply they are bacteria, bacteria food, coral food, and coral vitamins. You don't have to use the full line of any of the systems. You can use lith rocks with Prodibio if you want. You can use the Zeovit bacteria and food and the FM additives if you want. Of course each system is designed to work "in perfect harmony" with their own products, but I have found bits of this and bits of that work best for me. Ime, if you don't use lith rocks, you have to dose much, much less of the supplements than the labels suggest otherwise cyano moves in. These supplements really are concentrated.

You could always try Zeovit for a year and see how you feel about it. It definitely won't hurt your tank other than maybe spurring some cyano.

[daniella3d]

Do you have a microscope powerfull enough to see bacterias?

Originally Posted by asylumdown

How long does a bottle of Zeobak last you? I ask because this weekend I looked at my zeobak under the microscope and didn't see anything that was even remotely alive. There was barely even any debris that could have once been alive. My bottle was a couple of months old, so maybe it was just that it was too old, but even though the bacteria in the other 'no refrigeration necessary' bacteria supplements I've looked at were mostly dead, they at least were filled with plenty of cellular debris. If it was that it was too old and considering how long they last when you're dosing drops at a time... the whole thing makes me so very suspicious.

[asylumdown]

Originally Posted by daniella3d

Do you have a microscope powerfull enough to see bacterias?

yup. Between the 20X eyepiece I use for everything microbial and the 100X oil immersion stage, max total magnification is 2000X. That's not enough to see viruses, but it's far more than sufficient to see bacteria. To be honest, I find that one stage down (40X) with the 20X eye pieces (so 800X total) is the best to see if anything in there is living and swimming around. You'd really only need the 2000X if you were doing detailed cellular analysis and to honest I don't think the optics on my microscope are good enough enough for that, not without some sophisticated staining at least.

[msjboy]

take at look at the hardcore zeovit setups from their forum:


http://www.zeovit.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=88

Some I have to say are super nice but again, based on people with time and money.

Look at the famous, reef in the sky tank owned by a pilot in Hong Kong... think tank was made in Toronto..... sickly nice sump as well.

msjboy